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Intro: Welcome to Energetic Advantage, the podcast where energy isn't woo, it's your edge. I'm your host, Jessica Cerato. Intuitive strategist, lifelong pattern decoder, lover of numbers, and energetic guide for visionary leaders. Around. Here we go. Energy first, strategy second. Every episode will give you a perspective, a tool, or a timeline shift that helps you lead from your power.
Because the truth is your energy is your most undervalued asset. Until you learn how to use it, get ready. You're about to have the advantage. Let's begin.
Episode Intro: Today we have an amazing guest on the Energetic Advantage Podcast and her name is April Sim. I love this conversation because April talks. Not just about leadership from theory, she is living it. And you know, for those of you numerology geeks out there, her birth card is the king of diamonds, [00:01:00] literally the business person's card.
So buckle up, you're gonna learn a lot from her today. April is a multiunit restaurant owner operator, and you know, she's taken one of the most demanding industries out there and asked a really bold question. What happens when you lead with humanity while not sacrificing performance? She has built practical systems around trust, recognition, belonging, fairness, and purpose, and the results will speak for themselves.
She truly is owning her energetic advantage as being able to see into the future and knowing exactly what businesses need, which is focusing on humans. We get into what changed for her, what surprised her, and why humanity might actually be the missing piece in leadership. So. Come along for the ride. I can't wait for you to hear all of what April has to say.
Jessica Cerato: So you've [00:02:00] probably heard leadership taught like strategy, metrics and control, but today we are gonna ask you to consider, and a very important question, which is, what if the missing energetic advantage in leadership has been humanity all along? So my guest today has tested this in one of the most demanding environments possible.
Quick service restaurants and has built a leadership framework where performance and people do not compete. They cooperate. So, welcome April. We're so excited you're here.
April Sim: Thank you for having me, Jessica.
Jessica Cerato: Ugh. Okay. So typically what I find is before we have language, before we have framework, before we actually know what's happening, we realize something, or we start to notice something.
So I wanna bring you back to that moment before you had kind of [00:03:00] language for what was happening. When did you realize that humanity was the missing link in leadership?
April Sim: So in the summer we were hosting the corporate leadership team at one of our restaurants. And, uh, we had a strong sales target there. We a clear strategy and we were executing really well. So when they came in, we showed them everything, our systems, our communication. How we were driving the numbers and on paper everything looked great, but at the end of the visit, the feedback that I got wasn't about our operations, it was about how the place felt.
And that really caught my attention. And I think at that point is whenever I started to try to understand what it was we had built in that restaurant.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. And what were they saying? Like how did it feel to them? Like obviously it was something different, an energy that they were noticing. How did they describe it or could they describe.
April Sim: He couldn't describe it. He was just very, I've just never felt this before. he's like, I've been into restaurants where I [00:04:00] can see the operations and everybody's doing everything right, but he is like, what I feel from your guests and from your team and it, it's just such a unique feeling for me.
Jessica Cerato: so interesting, and had you noticed. Anything prior to that of what was working or wasn't working, or did it really take someone externally to come in to kind of mirror this to you?
April Sim: we're always hitting our targets, right? And we are working really hard to do it. But I could feel that there was a loop, So we were constantly hiring, retraining, losing people, starting over. And I could see that we had structure, but we had no real foundation.
Jessica Cerato: Okay. And so why do you think this conversation is becoming unavoidable now? Like, why is this really coming to the forefront for you?
April Sim: Well, in the quick service industry, you're taught that meeting the metrics will make you profitable. And that can be true if you have an unlimited workforce.
Jessica Cerato: Yes.
April Sim: not the reality anymore. We have record unemployment among young [00:05:00] workers and at the same time, restaurants are struggling to find applicants.
So it's not that the people don't wanna work, it's they're choosing not to work in our environments. And I think that it's become clear that people don't work for just a paycheck anymore. And that's why this conversation is unavoidable because the workforce has changed.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. And did you, what broke first for you? Was it the turnover that you were noticing or what was it?
April Sim: It was the illusion. The illusion that our operations were gonna drive our success. Our operations were only our structure. It was the team that had control to make that structure work.
Jessica Cerato: so it was just like, again, like on paper, and I think if you're listening. You know, we're talking about restaurants like this bigger corporation, but I feel this works with individuals as well. I'm sure there are times in our lives where everything on paper looked great. We were doing exactly what we were supposed to do.
We were meeting kind of all of our goals. We were achieving all of [00:06:00] our goals and like we still didn't feel good about it. And we know when that happens, we're less motivated to continue because why do something if it doesn't? Feel good. Yeah. So what shifted for you when you stopped kind of leading at people or leading with the metrics or the goals and you started to lead kind of with them when you started to bring really people to the forefront?
April Sim: Well, this shift was immediate, right? We went from a hierarchy system to a team focused. People started to speak up, questions were asked. Clarity increased, and coaching definitely replaced criticism. But the biggest shift, I think, was when the team started solving problems on their own and stopped waiting to be told what to do.
Jessica Cerato: That's interesting so that you know. I feel that might be surprising for some people, right? When we start to bring people to the forefront and we [00:07:00] start to bring them into decisions, most people might assume that that makes it more challenging because there's more, I don't know, hands in the pot or whatever.
But you're saying it was opposite. They started to take ownership of that. Is that right?
April Sim: yeah. It was like every idea fed off the next one. Right. And it just circulated. Right. I can't.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. What surprised, I mean, that is a little bit surprising to me, but what surprised you the most about your results? Either like financially, culturally, personally, like when you started to really bring humanity to the forefront. Did anything surprise you there?
April Sim: It surprised me that our performance didn't suffer. It improved pretty quickly financially. The numbers became more consistent, right? The food cost improved, the labor balanced over all the shifts. The culture stabilized because people wanted to be there. Right? And personally, it shifted my role completely.
I went from [00:08:00] someone who was managing outcomes to someone who was building people who could create them.
Jessica Cerato: And so to do that. You obviously had to change some of your behaviors. What did you have to unlearn as a leader, as you kind of like began to lead differently?
April Sim: I had to unlearn my definition of success. I,
Jessica Cerato: What was it before?
April Sim: I thought success was hitting the numbers. Yeah, really. But success is way more than that. for me, it turned into watching for those moments when the team was able to go beyond their own expectations when they started thinking for themselves taking ownership and growing without being pushed.
Because when that happened, the team moved into a completely different level of performance.
Jessica Cerato: Right. We're so busy hitting the targets and the goals that sometimes we limit what's possible because Yeah. That's so interesting. And when we allow others to [00:09:00] lead or lead in a different way.
April Sim: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Cerato: It's expanding into kind of a, like you said, a whole other realm of what else is possible.
April Sim: A process can only take you so far. But people, they can surprise you.
Jessica Cerato: And ooh, that, okay, so people surprising you. So this is, I think, something to explore here, especially in this month of April where we're talking about risk. Where did this or did this feel risky to you at all? first?
April Sim: I thought that, you know, uh, it would hurt our results 'cause we've always met our metrics, right? We've always met what we needed to do. And I wasn't sure if focusing on people would slow us down, but it was the opposite. Once the people felt supported, performance became more stable, and meeting the metrics just became something they did.
They didn't have to try anymore.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, because it, feels in a way, because each person is unique or as humans, we're unique that we're kind of wild cards. [00:10:00] Right? Whereas like if you're looking at, just at the numbers, they're very objective. But a wild card, oh, this is such an interesting concept, right? Because if you think about it, if you, treat the wild card well.
Right. If you really embrace the wild card, that is infinite possibility in the empowered side. Versus of course, if you have a wild card and the environment isn't great, you're going to get the wild card behaviors that you don't necessarily want. So there's that risk. But you can, don't wanna say mitigate the risk, but you can support the wild card in a way that you get the.
guess the better results or the, the different results. Yeah. That's interesting. So now that, you kind of experienced this in your restaurants. You were noticing that this was happening and then you started to kind of get language to it and pull it into a framework.
April Sim: Yes.
Jessica Cerato: So the framework has five pillars, [00:11:00] and I'll list the five pillars, and then I wanna go through each one and I want you to walk us through each one because this is exactly kind of what we do with numerology and geometry of like separately they are important, but I feel what really works in your framework is that they all exist and have to connect. And if you have three but not two, it might not work as well.
So the five pillars are trust, recognition, belonging. Fairness and purpose. So can you just walk us through, we'll go from the beginning. Walk us through a little bit of trust. why was this an important pillar? What does it mean? What does this pillar look and feel like
April Sim: Okay.
Jessica Cerato: a workplace?
April Sim: So trust. Trust is the foundation. If people don't feel safe speaking up, asking questions or making mistakes, you don't get performance,
you get hesitation, Recognition is what reinforces the behavior. So when people feel seen and they [00:12:00] know what they're doing well, they repeat it.
Belonging.
Belonging is what keeps people there. If someone doesn't feel like they matter to the team, they disconnect even if they stay. Fairness. Fairness is, what creates the stability. People need to know the standard and that the standard is the same for everyone. And purpose. Purpose is what ties it all together. If people don't understand why the role matters, they won't fully engage in it. And when those five things are working together, you don't have to chase performance. You build a team that deliver.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, it's interesting. I heard so many words in there of connected, engaged, and one of the ones that really stood out for me is when you were talking about belonging. It's like people can be there, but if they're not connected, it's like, doesn't matter. And so there are so many times where, again, like we have a team in place but if they're not engaged, if they're not connected again on paper.
It looks like we have everything that we need, but it's more of this like [00:13:00] qualitative energy that we're looking for. So when you kind of examine these five pillars, and I want everyone to listen, who's listening, you can think about this in your own life or even your own workplace, but for you, April, what do you think, which pillar do you think is most commonly missing in workplaces?
April Sim: Belonging.
Jessica Cerato: Okay, so tell us about that. Like what does that tend to look like and why do you think it's missing or what, what could you do?
April Sim: Like you can have standards training, you can have all the systems in place, right? But if people don't feel like they're a part of something, they're not gonna give you their best. And that's where turnover starts. Not because people can't do the job. But because they don't feel connected to it. Like when we were building towards our sales target, one of the things that we did was introduce small challenges that had nothing to do with sales,
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm.
April Sim: but had everything to do with connection to each other and to the guest.
One of the [00:14:00] examples is, to make 12 guests smile, right? Something simple, right? But still a bit of a challenge. And what we've seen was that when the team connected to the guest, they connected more to the work. It gave them a sense of purpose that went way beyond hitting numbers. People don't necessarily connect to numbers.
They connect to meaning.
Jessica Cerato: I love that. And I think, again, when we have a goal. Sometimes energetically it works, like you said, to create these little challenges or subsets of goals that, of course, energetically feed into the larger goal. But I love how you just didn't break down the goal. If the goal was like, you know, 10 sales, you didn't say, okay, like two sales per hour, you, you're like, okay, what?
What can help the energy? What can help this feeling of belonging? Oh, the smiles. But of course it ends up helping the larger goal, but not linearly more energetically. Yeah. Which one do you think creates the fastest [00:15:00] shifts if people are looking at this and saying, okay, trust, recognition, belonging, fairness, purpose, What do you feel is able to shift fairly quickly?
April Sim: Recognition.
Jessica Cerato: Okay.
April Sim: It's the fastest linger.
Jessica Cerato: Okay.
April Sim: Yes, because when you reinforce what's working, people will naturally do more of it. And when you do it publicly, you're also showing the rest of the team what good looks like. So the impact isn't just individual, it spreads.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
April Sim: I remember one busy Saturday I was working in the restaurant and this particular day delivery orders were exceptionally busy.
So we had a relatively new employee work in the station and I've noticed on a few occasions that, you know, sometimes she ran a few nervous patterns. So I made a conscious effort to keep my eye on her. Halfway through her shift, like when it slowed down a bit, I went up to her and I thanked her. I mentioned that I was watching and that I could see the attention to detail that she was putting into every [00:16:00] order.
Her face completely softened, right? Like she was just right this deep breath. And after that, I don't think I ever seen her run those nervous patterns. And in fact, I think that she's one of the most reliable employees that we have in the restaurant today. Who knows, like every position fully.
Jessica Cerato: Wow.
April Sim: Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica Cerato: And imagine if she had gone through that whole shift. it wouldn't have mattered even if objectively she had done everything right. If she hadn't been recognized or if you hadn't kind of said or or noticed that it would've been a completely different energy.
April Sim: it would've right. Because like I, I think that she would've felt like she was going too slow. Right. But like reframing that about like the attention, it just kind of, it gave her that approval that what she was doing was, great. And
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, so I think it's funny because I think that's a great [00:17:00] example of kind of this next question that I think a lot of people might have is, you know, we have these five pillars and Like you said, sometimes we assume that by putting these in place we might kind of dilute performance, or performance might go down.
But how do these pillars really protect performance or how do they enhance performance? By having that as the structure.
April Sim: Jessica, they remove the things that usually break execution. Trust reduces hesitation. Recognition reinforces what's working. Belonging keeps people engaged. Fairness, it creates consistency and purpose. Keeps everyone aligned.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. it might think at the beginning like you have something to add, like a, something to add to the to-do list, but really when it becomes the foundation everything becomes easier.
April Sim: Yeah,
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
April Sim: everyone knows exactly what to do.
Jessica Cerato: Okay, let's, I wanna do kind of some [00:18:00] like rapid fire questions here because I think this will get into the how, like how you're able to execute this.
So when you have trust, so you have trust, you have that pillar, but it's without boundaries. What happens?
April Sim: Confusion. If trust isn't clear, it turns into inconsistency.
Jessica Cerato: And then what I'm hearing is then trust starts to erode also, because if that happens more than once. Yeah. Okay.
April Sim: I, I could even say that boundaries is what helps create trust.
So no boundaries
Jessica Cerato: did you find worked well in the restaurant? Or what kind of boundaries did you have? When you were building that pillar of trust, or did you see that worked really well?
April Sim: We created an open door policy, right? So everyone knew like they could come to us with the good, bad, the ugly, we would take it as feedback,
Jessica Cerato: I mean, it's so funny, like a lot of these concepts are just so simple, but it's interesting how often we don't see them in workplaces [00:19:00] because they're not easy, like it does require presence. It does require energy. You can't just set a number goal and forget it again. If people, if we are these wild cards, sometimes.
Things do take longer or shorter. we can't plan so linearly right. Like by having open door policy, you might have all of the specific things you need to do in a day, but if someone uses that open door policy and comes to you, you stop and you listen and you engage with them,
April Sim: the team, they needed to know that we weren't going to just take offense.
We're here to listen and if it's something that we can work with, work on, we will.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next one. So luckily in your example, the recognition went right, right? Well, great job, job April but sometimes recognition goes wrong. So recognition gone wrong or [00:20:00] done wrong. What does that look like?
April Sim: So recognition done wrong, it's it's generic. It's not specific earned, right? It doesn't mean anything. It feels fake and people can see through it immediately.
Jessica Cerato: You know what reminds me of like how many times I work with leaders and they're like, yeah, but like I tell my team every day, they're doing a great job. Like at the end of the day, I send out a message, I say, great job team. Like I'm recognizing it, but it's not
April Sim: That's great.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
April Sim: like I kind of joked with my managers 'cause I'm like, if you're saying it's a great job, I'm like, all you're doing is advertising that you're not really paying attention to what they're doing.
Jessica Cerato: You can't, oh my gosh. It reminds me, don't, don't judge me as a mom, but it reminds me of, you know, like when you're sitting by the edge of the pool and your kids have jumped off the diving board and did like a million cannonballs and you're just like, yep, great. It's so true though. Right. Okay.
And so was that something that your managers really had? Was that a skill you found they had to [00:21:00] learn or just by maybe you naming it, were they able to execute it pretty quickly after that?
April Sim: No, I still find that we have to keep on top of it,
right? Because it is easy just to be generic. It is easy to be like one of my managers, his response was like, but they know what I mean.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
April Sim: well, I'm listening and I don't.
Right. So, and I think that that is one of the strongest points to make, right? That those generic open recognition is what people are hearing. So even if the person that you're directing it to understands the person beside them doesn't, so how are they supposed to know what good looks like?
If you're not voicing it.
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's like feedback without specificity. We just, we don't know what's going on. Like again, if you go back to your example, if you had just said to that employee, great job. [00:22:00] She might have assumed that you were talking about her speed, not her attention to detail, and then over time she would've lost that attention to detail because she didn't realize that is exactly what you wanted more of.
So what I'm hearing in recognition is you are recognizing a specific behavior that you want
April Sim: Repeated.
Jessica Cerato: Repeated.
Yeah. Okay. This one, oh,
April Sim: recognition though too, right? It's also about voicing what's not. Right?
Jessica Cerato: Yep.
April Sim: And I think that, uh, sometimes that part gets overlooked because recognition is fully being seen for what you're doing well and what you need to improve on. And I think people have a hard time. Giving that feedback that might come across as or received as negative.
Jessica Cerato: Negative. Yeah, and it's more of that constructive feedback. But I think this, I think it's interesting that recognition, I think they're all so related, but what I'm kind of getting energetically is it's, it's [00:23:00] really hard to give constructive feedback or constructive criticism when trust isn't there, when belonging isn't there, when fairness isn't there.
But when all of these pillars are there and working, if I trust you, if there's trust between us. You can say anything to me, and even if it's quote unquote negative, I will receive it in the way it's intended, which is to help me be better. But if I don't trust you and you come to me with a, you know, a critique of my work it's not going to work.
So this is another example of it's not just about one of these things in isolation. It's about having them all working together. Yeah. this last, last rapid fire is and interesting to me because I get this a lot, especially when I work with corporations in discipline, for example.
you don't have to take the discipline approach. But fairness versus equality, how do you [00:24:00] define the difference or how do you define really this pillar of fairness?
April Sim: Equality treats everyone the same. Fairness gives people what they need to succeed,
Everybody is different, so how can you treat them all the same?
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, and they might need different things. I always think of this meme or cartoon of, you know, kids when they're just different heights. We're not gonna expect each one of them to go to the sink and wash their hands. Like we might need to give someone a step stool that's not being unfair.
Like they both, they're getting access to the sink that they need, but they do need something different. Can you give us, do you have an example of how that, like works for you in the workplace? Because I think this is a, a real. Sticking point for a lot of people, they don't want to seem unfair by giving different people different things, but this is an important pillar for humanity and leadership [00:25:00] because as humans, we're all different.
April Sim: I have a few different ideas, but let's look at scheduling,
Jessica Cerato: Okay.
April Sim: If we were to treat people equally, that would mean that my students would always work, let's say Saturday and Sunday, six to two. What if one of those people had basketball that day and couldn't work that shift? Right. So fairness would be to not necessarily take that shift away, right? Not take those hours away, but maybe move them to a two to 10 shift.
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And again, if they feel this belonging and if they're connected by that purpose, they want their coworkers to be able to succeed and be happy. No one's gonna be mad that someone switched a shift because we're all working towards the same goal. And I just laugh of like when you're with coworkers that you like to be with and trust, and you feel belonging with.[00:26:00]
Like you want them to be happy also and you know about their basketball like Right. I think that's the thing. When we take humanity out of it, we don't know about each other's humanness and a lot of times I think corporations think, well then that creates that chit chat chatter that's not work related.
Don't spend time talk, but it's but yeah. If you have spent time talking about how important in this example basketball is to this person when they switch a shift to be able to go to basketball. That doesn't feel unfair, that you're happy for them because you've had that connection, you've had that belonging.
April Sim: Exactly
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, I know. So chitchat, I'm laughing. Chitchat is, is is not bad. It's how we kind of connect and get that belonging. So
April Sim: yeah,
Jessica Cerato: when we talk about leadership and work, you know, we spend a lot of time at work, right? And so a lot of what happens in our work affects who we are even when we're not working.
So we've heard a [00:27:00] lot about how this affected your restaurants, your team members, your managers, but I'm curious for you, like your experience and what you personally got from it. So how did this work change the way you see kind of power authority leadership?
April Sim: So I don't see power and authority as the same thing anymore.
Jessica Cerato: Ooh, interesting. Okay. Tell us more about that.
April Sim: Power can be used to de demand a result. Authority is something that your team gives you, right? So earlier in my career, I probably relied more on power, like using my position to lay out the expectations and the accountability.
empower gives you the ability to get that short term result. Authority is what creates long-term performance because authority is built on trust. And when people trust you, they don't just follow your direction, they take it to the next level.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.[00:28:00]
April Sim: Yeah.
Jessica Cerato: And I love how you say power, a lot of times really depends on the position. And in a few weeks, I know I'm gonna have an episode on hierarchy, right? And so many people in organizations use their position to exert this power. And as you said, they might get these short term results. But over time, if you don't also develop this personal power and authority and trust, it's, it's not gonna work.
It doesn't matter. What title is after your name? That's not gonna be long term. It's not gonna be sustainable. how did this change you outside of work?
April Sim: I think it's changed me at the core. I'm less reactive, more curious, and a lot more intentional with my attention now, like when I'm with my kids, I'm with them. When I'm with my friends, I'm there, I'm not pulled in a hundred directions anymore and I'm really enjoying being present.
Jessica Cerato: because you're just allowing the people who are working when you are not to be present [00:29:00] and you're trusting their decisions. Yeah. Okay. So we've talked a lot about, what you can do, what energetic shifts you can make in a workplace when people come to the workplace. But I just wanna talk a little bit about another thing that I know you're passionate about, which is youth is helping prepare.
Our kids, this younger generation for work before they get there. And I'm just laughing because before we go into this segment, I want everyone to think about their very first job that they had.
Okay. Now I gotta ask you all, what was your day for now? I'm really curious. What was yours?
April Sim: I was an assistant at a hair salon.
Jessica Cerato: Oh, okay.
April Sim: Yeah. I, I was the shampoo girl
Jessica Cerato: The shampoo girl. Oh gosh. And I was a buser. I had a lot of jobs when I was younger, but I think my first one was, I was like [00:30:00] a buser at a restaurant, the Settlers Inn.
April Sim: Oh.
Jessica Cerato: and it's funny because. you just think about these environments where kids now are getting their first jobs I think we as society can do a lot to make that experience more enjoyable.
Not just for the kids obviously, but for the companies and the corporations, right. To actually get them excited to hire more young people. So for you, why is it important to bring these pillars to youth? Like before they ever set foot in the workplace, like before their first job.
April Sim: By the time someone gets their first job, they're not starting fresh. They already have patterns.
Like how they respond to pressure, how they take feedback, like how they see themselves. And a lot of those patterns are built around shielding and not growing. So instead of developing people, we need to go and undo things first.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, I didn't even think about that before. But you know, [00:31:00] obviously youth, so by the time they, that's in like the teen, let's just say like the teen years. You're very aware of how others perceive you. So in everyone's numerological chart between 13 and 26 connection, how you interact with other people is the most important thing to your mind.
And so, yeah, how you just said of like they're , hyper aware of what other people are thinking about them and they don't want to look like they don't know, they don't want to feel stupid or they don't want to. Fail. And so they are kind of shielding, like protecting themselves from other people's perception.
But in doing that, yeah, they're creating patterns that are harder to undo. Yeah.
April Sim: So if we start earlier, yeah, we don't have to
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
April Sim: it later.
Jessica Cerato: Going back to that comment of well, they'll just know what are young people missing? That we assume as this older [00:32:00] generation that they'll just figure it out.
April Sim: Well, they're not missing work ethic. They're missing preparation.
Jessica Cerato: Okay.
April Sim: Yeah, so they're stepping into environments where they're expected to handle pressure feedback. People without ever being taught how, so they're figuring it out in real time, under pressure. and that doesn't always look like their best work.
but not because they don't care, it's because they've never been shown what that actually looks like.
Jessica Cerato: and kind of going back to this recognition part of what does it look like to do a good job? What actually is important? Because a lot of times in school is teacher dependent. So maybe they had a teacher who rewarded people who were just quiet and did their work.
Right. And what that's teaching the kids is, okay, well don't ask questions don't speak up and if that's the only experience they've had when they go into a workplace, they don't know to ask questions like [00:33:00] we would, but maybe they are not trained or they're not prepared to ask questions.
Especially if they're asking an adult So how do you think teaching humanity early. Can change the future workforce.
April Sim: I think it changes everything. You don't get people walking into any environment unsure of themselves. You get people who feel capable. They understand how to handle the pressure, how to take feedback, and how to contribute. So instead of fixing behavior. You're building the confidence and that changes not just the workplace, but any environment they're a part of.
Jessica Cerato: Right.
April Sim: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Cerato: teams, family dynamics, like if they're going to school their class. You know, this just seems like such a big shift, especially as we look forward even 10 years, right? Where, you know, a lot of the boomer, well they're kind of already retired, but the aging workforce like will, it will completely shift.
So if every 18-year-old learned this, if [00:34:00] this was a prerequisite, right? To their first job. What do you think would be different in 10 years from now?
April Sim: we'd remove years of struggle
instead of spending their early years figuring out pressure, feedback, and how to work with people. They'd already have those skills, so leadership would show up earlier. More confidence, more accountability, more awareness of their impact and engagement would shift too. They wouldn't just show up to do a job.
They'd think, contribute and take ownership. I think we'd be building leaders from day one, not in years.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, that's what just was hitting me when you were talking. It's because we wouldn't be training employees, we would be building leaders and then we'd have this self-sustaining workforce, right? where it would kind of energetically support itself versus feeling like we, the quote unquote leaders entitled, had to kind of hold everything.
April Sim: it's
Jessica Cerato: okay. Yeah, [00:35:00] totally. I'm like, oh, imagine the exhale, or even what you just said of like now your ability to be able to be with your family, to be with your friends, you know, especially in your environment where it literally is open 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Imagine in your life if you didn't do this, be constantly on call
April Sim: constantly.
Jessica Cerato: that for us, and we don't want that for the kids either.
April Sim: no. But even with myself, right? Like we, I've had years in this environment and I think it took me about 10 years to realize I was managing and not leading,
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm.
April Sim: right? Because again, you, you kind of think that they're synonyms, but they're really, really
Jessica Cerato: not.
they're so different. the energy underneath leading and the energy underneath managing is so different.
April Sim: Yeah.
Jessica Cerato: And again, if everyone can just think about their own areas of life, whether it's [00:36:00] personal or work. And really ask yourself like, am I trying to manage this or am I really stepping into leadership?
And it's gonna require some different behaviors. But when, and if you can do that, it will shift completely on the other side. a few last questions here to really help people like bring this all together. What do you think. Is the biggest myth around humanity in leadership?
April Sim: Oh, that it's soft
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
April Sim: and like this. This was one of the hardest things that I had to really reinforce with my management. Humanity isn't about lowering our standards. It's about how to sustain them, right? It's structure within awareness, like we're still holding the line, we're just changing how people meet it.
Jessica Cerato: And it's so funny, this brings me back, I hadn't even clued into this, but it brings me back to corporate. When I was in human resources and training and development, and it was all, it was always like, well, Jess, can you train the softer [00:37:00] skills? And even the way we facilitated training, softer skills kind of got put in between.
The quote unquote harder skills. And by doing that, you're saying even without saying it, that they are less important. They're softer, but that's a huge myth. We know people have free will, so people can choose to take these foundations, take the concept or not, but what do you think is the cost of ignoring this?
April Sim: Turnover, burnout, instability. We spend more time replacing people than developing them, and when you're constantly fixing problems, instead of building something that works, it's exhaustion.
Jessica Cerato: It's so funny. I'm working with a corporation right now, and they came to me because they felt they were having trouble in recruiting. But when I dove deeper into it, they're recruiting all the time, which is why it feels like their problem is recruitment, but it's actually not.
Their [00:38:00] problem is retention. And if we focus on that retention piece through these pillars and through, obviously for their situation, we'll have to change some structures. But recruitment is kind of like the symptom. Of the underlying problem. And so of course we could try to patch that. We could try to put better systems to find more people in recruitment, but that would never address the underlying root cause, which is why are you having to recruit
so much in the first
April Sim: It's the foundation,
Jessica Cerato: Yeah,
April Sim: right? That's where it all stems from.
Jessica Cerato: So what does strong leadership actually look like now?
April Sim: I thought long and hard at, at this question. Strong leadership now is someone who can create results, hold standards, build trust, and still treat people with dignity. It's not one or the other anymore. You definitely need all of it.
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm.
April Sim: Yeah,
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, it's, it is this all encompassing So [00:39:00] you're not saying humanity as a replacement for anything. It's bringing humanity as the foundation or the forefront of leadership
April Sim: yeah, yeah.
Jessica Cerato: else is, is still there. Yeah.
April Sim: has to be.
Jessica Cerato: So if there is a leader out here, either working in a corporate setting or even has their own business.
And they feel this gap. They're like, they've recognized something in this conversation, which is like, Ooh, I could see where maybe this could help me, but not quite sure where to start. What's step one them? Where would you suggest starting.
April Sim: Listening, try to understand actually what's happening, ask questions and pay attention to where the friction is.
A lot of leaders try to fix problems before they really, really know what the answer is.
And I, don't think that we, spend enough time just listening and watching because we need to fix it.
Jessica Cerato: I am laughing because so many times this happens where you go into the [00:40:00] C-suite and I'm like, what's the problem? And they tell me the problem. And then I'm like, well, how do you know that's a problem? And they're like, well, we just, no. I'm like, did you ask anybody?
I know we're laughing, but you know, in April I talk about this a lot in my April forecast asking questions.
That you're genuinely unsure of The answer as a leader requires vulnerability. it isn't easy. I get it. Because when we ask a question, especially when we ask someone a question, we've talked about these someones as wild cards, we have to be open to hearing the answer and we might actually be surprised. By the answer, and we kind of a lot of times like to know, we want to know before we ask the question, because sometimes asking the question feels like opening up something that we weren't quite ready for. But I always feel it's better to know in your experience [00:41:00] here, do you remember asking a question? And getting an answer that surprised you, that you were like, oh, I'm so glad I asked this question. Or maybe you weren't glad you asked the question, but was there something that you remember that did surprise you?
April Sim: I don't know if I can come up with a specific answer for that, because I became really good at asking questions with my team. it was every time. Right. And uh, like I know at the beginning people would look at me like deer with the headlights, right? cause they're afraid to gimme a wrong answer.
Jessica Cerato: So this exactly shows what we were talking about. If you as a leader are asking a question that you already know the answer to. Of course, your people are afraid to answer it because they energetically know that you have an answer in mind, and they don't wanna get it wrong.
No one wants to answer their boss or their leader or their manager in the wrong way, so they're gonna hesitate [00:42:00] because they're looking for a right answer, because they feel energetically like you already have an answer. Whereas if you are genuinely curious and you don't know the answer. Energetically, they feel that spaciousness there and they're more willing to answer because they can't get it wrong because you don't have that preconceived answer.
And I all also feel that, you know, a lot of things that you talked about today are skills, like we talked about recognition, like giving recognition is a skill that you really have to learn. I also think that asking questions is a skill that you can become better at. And so if you're asking questions and people aren't answering, if they're maybe giving you the deer in the headlights, I want you to notice what April did, which is continue to ask the questions, right?
Not assume that they're not answering because they don't want to be engaged like it has to [00:43:00] become. even more like second nature, because again, maybe the first time you ask a question, they haven't built that trust in you yet. So if you continue to ask the questions, if you continually show up and say, I'm gonna continue to ask these questions because I genuinely care, that builds the, here we go with the other pillars, the trust, the belonging, the purpose, right?
And then when you recognize people. When they do ask a question, Hey, that was a really great question. Or like, oh wow. I really love that insight you gave me. You don't, have to choose it or go with what they said, but like recognizing their willingness to engage in the conversation with you.
Yeah, like full circle, all the five pillars like have to be there.
April Sim: we have recently like restructured our whole training system, like specially designed for youth, right? around how they learn, like repetition. And that is actually one of the requirements they have in order to sign off, right? They have to ask three [00:44:00] questions per shift for four weeks,
Jessica Cerato: love it.
April Sim: cause like we know people don't like asking questions. Right. And this way it was just like, we don't care what the question is. We need you to be able to learn how to ask a question.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
April Sim: So, and I remember the manager just kind of like looking funny at me and then was like, oh, right. Like it was, it was really interesting kind of switch.
Right.
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's so important and I think that's a skill that we can all really work on
this month especially. Okay, so where, we'll put your information in the show notes, but where can people learn more about your work with leaders and your framework and also this youth part?
April Sim: Right now I'm in the process of building this into formal training for leaders and youth. we're still applying this and to test it in real environment.
Jessica Cerato: so , just message her, get some behind the scenes details on this, because, whenever [00:45:00] you're innovating something, this is what it, looks like, right. You're doing something new, you have to test. You're developing this framework, you're learning as you go
April Sim: I would love it if somebody. Reached out to me so we can have this conversation and I can understand what experience they're having.
Jessica Cerato: And trust me when I tell you if April can do it in her environment. Which like I said at the beginning of the conversation, is one of the most challenging and fast paced environments that you could work at. That shows me that if it's tested in that environment, it can work anywhere else because at the, you're going for it in the, in the hardest way possible.
Uh, I love that. Any last words? Any, anything else you wanna share before we say goodbye?
April Sim: No, I would just really appreciate it if anybody wanted to reach out and have this conversation. The more information that I have. The better we can make this and the more we can help [00:46:00] our youth and our people really thrive in the environments that they're in, no matter whether it's executive or quick service.
Jessica Cerato: Love it. And now to the question I ask all of my guests, april, what is your energetic advantage?
April Sim: I'm not sure.
Jessica Cerato: so your energetic advantage is that you can see the big picture while not losing your connection to the detail. You know, in your numerology you are the king, the king of diamonds, the leader of the physical world, which means that you have this bird's eye view of seeing everything.
But sometimes people in those positions are really distracted by the shiny things, really taken over by the physical and the tangible, and they miss the energetic. And so your energetic advantage is not ignoring those and going fully to the other side, but kind of what you said, bringing them all together and [00:47:00] realizing that the best way to achieve tangible results is through the energy and through the humans that generate those results. So that's what I think your advantage is.
April Sim: Thank you.
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm.
Well, thank you April so much for sharing your experience and your wisdom here. We appreciate it. And you know, if this episode got you thinking, reach out to April. Send me a message. We'd love to hear from you. These five pillars. after talking through this whole conversation here, yes, our integral to the workplace, but I would even say integral to our life and our relationships.
So I encourage you to take whatever lands for you in this episode integrated into your life and, you know, try a little experiment. How about for the month of April? I'm gonna give everyone a challenge. Ask three questions a day, make sure you're asking three questions a day in April. Doesn't matter what they are, but make sure that they are curiosity driven, and I [00:48:00] guarantee you that we'll move the needle by the end of the month. All right, we'll see you next time everybody. Bye.
Outro: Thanks for being here inside The Energetic Advantage. If today's episode open something for you, share it, tag it, or send to the person who popped into your mind. And remember, energy first strategy second. Your advantage has always been in you. Now it's time to lead with it. See you next time.
