Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Energetic Advantage, the podcast where energy isn't woo, it's your edge. I'm your host, Jessica Cerato. Intuitive strategist, lifelong pattern decoder, lover of numbers, and energetic guide for visionary leaders. Around. Here we go. Energy first, strategy second. Every episode will give you a perspective, a tool, or a timeline shift that helps you lead from your power.
Because the truth is your energy is your most undervalued asset. Until you learn how to use it, get ready. You're about to have the advantage. Let's begin.
Episode Intro: All right, everyone, welcome back. Today's guest is a matriarchal badass. I can't think of any other way to describe her. Essentially, she's the kind of woman who showed up to record this podcast wearing a tuxedo, because why not? And honestly, this is exactly what this conversation is about. Not [00:01:00] fashion, not trends, not what to wear.
Self-expression. Because, you know, somewhere along the way, many of us were taught that style is superficial, that clothes don't matter, that appearance shouldn't matter, that who we are on the inside is what really counts. But today's conversation challenges that. What if style is actually one of the most powerful ways we communicate who we are?
What if the way we dress, move, speak, create, lead, and show up in the world is simply our soul looking for expression? My guest today is Lesley Fornelli, a psychic, EFT practitioner, stylist, creative director, and guide for women navigating periods of transition and ultimately transformation. Through a unique blend of intuition, energetic attunement, embodiment work, [00:02:00] personal style, and visual storytelling, Lesley helps women step into greater visibility, confidence, self-expression, and embodied leadership.
Whether she's helping someone release an old identity, curate a wardrobe that reflects who they are and who they're becoming, or directing a photo shoot that captures the essence of their highest timeline and their next chapter, Lesley's work is all about helping women align the outside with what is already true on the inside.
In this conversation, Lesley and I go deep into identity, transition, visibility, photo shoots, embodiment, personal style, and what happens, sometimes surprisingly, when the outside finally catches up to what's true on the inside. And yes, you will even get a peek inside my closet. We talk about why style is not vanity, why expression is [00:03:00] actually a form of leadership, and why so many women are wearing clothes, identities, and stories that they've outgrown, and why becoming more yourself is often less about adding something new and more about having the courage to reveal what is already there.
This conversation surprised me in the best way possible, and I have a feeling it's going to make you look at your life and your closet a little bit differently. So let's dive in.
Jessica Cerato: Okay, so excited for this conversation today, and if you're listening on the podcast, you can't see Lesley, but I can. And I was like, You're gonna show up in this way, in full-on just total self-expression, which I love, which just confirmed the direction that we're gonna take today's podcast, which is all about self-expression.
and so welcome, Lesley. I'm so excited you're here. Yay.
Lesley Fornelli: Yay
Jessica Cerato: And I realize I haven't even said your last name, but [00:04:00] also I think that's an energy you carry, is like you're like a one, a one word, like, to my kids, to, like, my friends, to my clients. It's like, "Lesley." And it's like, there's only one Lesley.
Lesley Fornelli: Oh my gosh, yes.
Jessica Cerato: is you.
Lesley Fornelli: Oh, I
Jessica Cerato: Lesley Fornelli, welcome.
Lesley Fornelli: Thank you. Thank you, Jess. And I love, actually, a little side note, is that I told my, my kids today that I was coming on this podcast, and my 14-year-old's like, "You're going on Big J's podcast?"
Jessica Cerato: Oh, to be, to be called Big J by a teenager is, like, the best compliment. Thank you. Thank you.
Lesley Fornelli: Yay. I'm so, I'm so excited for this combo
Jessica Cerato: okay. So it came through as a, kind of a statement, which I, I wanna start here of, you know, we spend a lot of time as society talking about mindset, about healing, about confidence, but one of the fastest ways I feel to create [00:05:00] change is through self-expression.
Lesley Fornelli: Hmm.
Jessica Cerato: And when I say that, I hear a lot of people responding to this, " well, self-expression is superficial. It's so surface level. Why does that matter?" And I actually feel it's one of the fastest ways to embody your identity. So let's start there. When you hear self-expression, when you hear this concept of, bringing your identity from the inside out,
Lesley Fornelli: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Cerato: what comes up for you there?
Lesley Fornelli: The very first thing, just as you were saying that, the very first thing is this: it is superficial if you are using your self-expression as a mask.
Jessica Cerato: Hmm.
Lesley Fornelli: If you're using clothes and makeup and hair as a protection, then it's superficial. If you're [00:06:00] moving, like, from the outside in, whereas self-expression, like you say, is the inside out
Jessica Cerato: And this really ties in to, I feel, where you tend to land with helping people the most was maybe in that transition, right? The transition from outside to in or inside to out, or trying to really, come back and hone in on your identity to know truly who you are so that you can self-express from the inside out.
So actually, let's start there. You work with a lot of women in transition, transition in age, transition in their life, transition in roles, transition in their business, like transition just as this general state of where I think you attract a lot of people because you're an expert in helping them. What patterns do you tend to see when people are in [00:07:00] transition?
Lesley Fornelli: Self-doubt. I think
Jessica Cerato: where do you think that comes from? Where does that self-doubt generate from?
Lesley Fornelli: when we're in expansion, when we're in the curiosity of moving from one experience, one place, one identity to the other, we are expanding, and that's very overwhelming. And the first thing to come in is the nervous system and then the ego voice, and it's just telling us that it's wrong and it's not safe.
And so then in comes the doubt. Whereas it is this push and pull with self, with soul, with a knowing that it is time to change, to grow, to expand, Or to just become smaller maybe, like come back into self, and it can feel really scary because it's [00:08:00] new. That's the other piece. When we do anything that's new, it feels.
We feel it in the body, and we take that as a, "I'm wrong."
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm. And I love how you said that of you really equate transitions with expansion, and I think that's kind of even a very simple reminder for everyone to take. When things are changing, if we can really even shift our words and our feelings around, well, it's not just changing, we're expanding, we're growing, we're evolving.
That kind of for me, like a weird way of motivation, but it makes the transitions more worth it 'cause you know that you're not going backwards. Like, you know that it's not change. It's actually evolution.
Lesley Fornelli: Hmm.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, that's so interesting
Lesley Fornelli: Mm-hmm. And there's part of us who, part of like the human experience that is like sole purpose is to make that not happen
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. Ooh, okay. So what-- You were [00:09:00] talking a little bit about, like, the different parts of us. what parts of ourselves tend to emerge or become louder as we kind of, to be, I guess, more linear, get older? But I'm actually thinking even, like, have more experiences. I think they're always there, the, these parts of self, but, like, in your experience, what parts of ourselves get louder or tend to emerge as we kind of go through these transitions, or we, we get older or expand into different areas of our life?
Lesley Fornelli: Well, that's, that's a really interesting question because I feel like everything just becomes heightened. as we, if we're talking about aging, we become closer to our soul. We have a direct conversation, with our soul, with our channel, and so that becomes heightened or louder. But then also, like I say, this like nervous [00:10:00] system or the ego mind or all of these things also become heightened 'cause they're on alert And then it, it's this discernment between Who are you gonna listen to? And I honestly think that this whole conversation, we'll say, within self has always been here. It's just the very cool thing about aging is that that soul gets louder. Our soul gets louder. our calling gets louder. Our dreams that have been bouncing around in our channel, in our field, haven't gone away, and we just become more curious why it's still here
Jessica Cerato: Okay, so this is like, there's so much coming around in my mind, but I actually think you've just connected the dots for me in a new way of, okay, so as we're evolving and shifting and going through this transition, there comes a point when our [00:11:00] internal self kind of no longer matches our expression of self or our external self, and therein lies another choice, which is, are we still gonna introduce ourselves from an outdated version externally of who we are?
Or like, who are we gonna listen to? Like the outer, because that's what we know and that's what we have, or the inner, who honestly is, because it's new, we're not maybe quite yet sure how to express that as it shifts and changes
Lesley Fornelli: Mm-hmm. Yeah, she hasn't, like, been given a stage yet
Jessica Cerato: Okay, so now let's really get into the, the tangible, practical, but also immensely spiritual part of fashion and clothing, right? And expressing yourself through that. When we're younger, when we're growing up, I mean, you and I both have kids who grow out of things in, like, a day.
Like, didn't we just buy these pants? But I think this is, like, such [00:12:00] a beautiful example of, like, it is obvious when we need to buy new clothes because we literally can no longer fit into the size. But as we get older, I mean, Lesley knows my deepest, darkest secrets. I still have clothes from, like, 2001,
Lesley Fornelli: Yeah, it's a cou- it's
Jessica Cerato: that I could, and I sometimes do, still wear.
So if we don't have these... Too much information. Everyone's like, "Now I gotta see your closet." No, you Actually, with Lesley's help, it's gotten better, but we'll get to that.
Lesley Fornelli: I was going to
Jessica Cerato: It... We'll get to that. If we no longer have these physical, tangible, logical, linear, external signs that say, "You need to update your clothing," how do we know when that is calling to us?
Like, how, what [00:13:00] internal cues do we get that perhaps it's time to adjust our expression to more fully match our identity or our embodiment of identity?
Lesley Fornelli: I think it's when you start to notice other people. It's the mirroring.
Jessica Cerato: Ooh,
Lesley Fornelli: other people and being like, "Oh, that's a fucking cool..." Oh, can we say
Jessica Cerato: You can swear. Yeah. Allowed. I'll allow it.
Lesley Fornelli: Self-expression. This is all about self-expression. but just like, that's an awesome shirt. That person looks cool. Ooh, I'm having some vibes with whatever, is a direct mirror to you to be like, " And maybe it's my turn to have some self-expression in this way."
Jessica Cerato: Wow. And it's so funny, of course, this is like not gonna be a surprise to you that I'm gonna say this, but it just like shows just how connected we [00:14:00] are. My next line of questioning was going to be along the lines of like do you think clothing is communication? Like what do our clothes say? And you've just in your own words said yes, because other people's clothes are communicating to us.
But can you like elaborate on that? what are some ways that our self-expression through clothes, and I think I would say like our maybe our physical appearance really communicates
Lesley Fornelli: well, obviously I'll use my own example, back to the original like self-expression from the inside out, is that you have to be okay with being visible
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm.
Lesley Fornelli: Like
Jessica Cerato: She's showing me her tuxedo shirt and, jewelry, or your necklace stack and vest. Yes, keep
going
Lesley Fornelli: Yes, totally. [00:15:00] And it also, you, yeah, you just have to be okay with being seen,
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm.
Lesley Fornelli: especially when you are using your outward appearance as a statement, as your expression, as your, like creative outlet. Some people paint. I love, I love fashion, but really behind the fashion, I love style. I love when people have a style, because style isn't trendy.
Style is completely created by your spirit, by your energy, by you. and I'm often saying to people, like, "If you aren't getting compliments on your outfit every day," like, [00:16:00] are you in true visibility? But I think to bring it a little bit out of the physical and into more of the energetics, is that often when people compliment me on my outfit, and now you that you're getting your compliments on your outfits, it actually has very little to do with what we are expressing on our physical body, and it is our frequency that we are moving out that people feel and get drawn to, so much so that they take a moment out of their day to approach you and say something about it
Jessica Cerato: Yes. Yes. Okay. I wanna continue with that, but I just wanna really highlight something you said in there, which is, like, your style comes from your spirit. And so your style is an energetic advantage. And so if you're not using it, you are not fully embodying all of the energy that you have within you to do it. it's [00:17:00] funny because, you know, I'm really about language, and I didn't even think to look at this word, but I'm going back to the part of your conversation where you really chose to use the word style. And, like, the style is your soul. The style is spiritual.
And I think as society it's kind of morphed into she has style or she doesn't have style, or style is good or style is bad. But did you know that the word stylist actually comes from the Latin word
stylus, which was a, a writing instrument, right? So originally, style had nothing to do with fashion. Style was literally the way you make your mark, like your energetic signature,
Lesley Fornelli: Burp
Jessica Cerato: right? So I feel that, you know, we've really [00:18:00] constrained or constricted this definition, which was really never intended. So if you think about it that way, like, what can you write or what is your signature with your style?
It's a way that you can communicate your energy. And just like we speak, just like we write, just like we decorate our homes, just like we do anything, go back to that original definition of the word style, and style is the way you make your mark. So it is important. It's like the least superficial thing we can talk about.
Yeah. Cool.
Lesley Fornelli: So cool
Jessica Cerato: And the second piece that I really wanna scope out is I think a hesitation that so many people have of you've identified really the underneath, the frequency underneath the physicality, and it's like what comes first, the chicken or [00:19:00] the egg? So if someone says to you, "Well, I'm just not confident enough to wear that," or they, they have an underlying frequency that it's making them hesitate or making them feel, a bit uncomfortable to express themselves in this way.
Like, what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Is it, like, you change your external expression and then your energy catches up internally? Is it, like, you work internally and then externally? I'm totally unsure actually as I say this. is this part of the equation or the conundrum that we have?
What do you think?
Lesley Fornelli: I think it's both, and that's why I think that's why the chicken or egg analogy is coming through. I think it's, yeah, I think it's totally both because maybe we can start talking about photo shoots a little bit because I think that this is, this is such a beautiful place to, lead the conversation in [00:20:00] that, I guess it would be egg first. you see this version of you on a timeline that you desire to embody, so then you, like, dress for the job you want in, like, very plain terms, right? And then you create this experience where you physically become this person physically, and then your It's so chicken or egg it is an energy that you then physically step into with clothes.
You have it captured on film, and then the world around you catches up to that frequency
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm. And that comes through Of really identifying with that future timeline and that future version of self. Maybe it's your, it's you, but it's a future version of you. Okay. So let's start here and actually, [00:21:00] like, let's back up because I'm laughing. We introduced you as, like, a one, a Lesley, but really, like, let's just hone in a little bit about part of what you do are y- like, the creative director for these photo shoots, right?
Which, which is where you help women hone in and identify and connect with this future version, this future timeline that you psychically and intuitively feel, and then kind of like you said, reverse engineer the physical, tangible aspects to come closer to that frequency. This is, like, the worst question I've ever asked anybody, but,
Lesley Fornelli: Oh, I can't wait.
Jessica Cerato: how? Like, how, how do you do that?
Lesley Fornelli: that is my psychic, connection. That's my energetic advantage,
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. Okay, so let's use me as an example because I think by the time this episode [00:22:00] airs, people will have seen the results, right? Yay. Of my most recent photo shoot. And to give you all a sneak peek again, a behind the scenes of how I work. Y'all already have heard that I have stuff from 2001, right? my closet historically, not anymore, has not really been a true reflection of my inner energy.
And so when I came to Lesley with the idea of this photo shoot, I essentially said, "I'm feeling these, the, the integration of four elements, right? Of north, south, east and west, air, fire, water and earth." that is it. Like, that is all really the information I gave you. So how did you take that and work through the process of helping [00:23:00] me to express that
Lesley Fornelli: Well, and also you gave us another really important piece is that you wanted to use the clothes in your day-to-day after the
Jessica Cerato: Yes.
Lesley Fornelli: So that really helped
Jessica Cerato: Yes, because- Mm-hmm, go ahead.
Lesley Fornelli: No, no, you go
Jessica Cerato: Well, no, I was saying in prior photo shoots, so basically everyone listening, basically any photo of me that looks somewhat professional has been creatively directed and produced by Lesley and her team, the Feral Souls. but what was different about this one is I kind of already felt the frequency shift within me.
So it wasn't about dressing up or taking someone else's clothes. It was like, how do I match the frequency that I am? And if that's a match, of course, I want it in my closet to wear in my everyday life.
Lesley Fornelli: But true embodiment, like literally embodying this, this version.
Jessica Cerato: [00:24:00] Mm-hmm.
Lesley Fornelli: well, and I'm glad that you brought up the Feral Souls because in the creative direction, I definitely have a partner, partner in crime, Nicole. And her and I gather the information that you've sent us. We both go into our own intuitive or psychic channels separately, and then we come together, and they're usually very close in how we envision things.
for me, how it comes through is I see where you are. Like, like are we in a forest? Are we at the beach? Are we inside? Are we outside? And then I start to see colors. I start to see, outfits. I start to see styles on you. And then the idea-- Like, it really is, it's just a channeled, a channeled experience.
And, it's so cool to go back to those initial notes and not... Sometimes I'll even, like, draw out outfits. I definitely saw you in a jumpsuit, which [00:25:00] you have, like, the most beautiful one. and I think really what happens, and I do this in all areas of my work, is that I just connect with your higher timeline or a different timeline that you are describing, and I, through meditation and psychic connection, I find that and connect with it and see her and see what she is wearing, and then pull it into this or push us there.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah
Lesley Fornelli: and then bring it into, your shoot
Jessica Cerato: And I love that because as kind of this internal and external world for, just to keep it, like, very kind of binary, there's so much more nuance to it. But when they start to integrate and to come together, of course other things in the external also start to shift, and one of them being, your business.
If you are [00:26:00] an entrepreneur or own your own business, that starts to shift. So can you talk about, maybe some examples, or even energetically, how you have seen someone's business change or something else externally once they, like, embodied their expression and, as you said, then became more visible?
What typically happens even if it's not a intentional, logical result of something?
Lesley Fornelli: I think just really simply put, you em- you embody that version of you. it just rearranges, so your frequency shifts, so then you're just attracting this whole other experience within your business. And if we're speaking of s- business specifically, I'll use myself as an example. I did this shoot, when we were in Sedona.
We were in Sedona together, and I did this shoot where, I [00:27:00] essentially was in my bra and a pair of ripped up jeans.
Jessica Cerato: Hmm
Lesley Fornelli: And it was an edge for me to be like, "Am I really gonna do a photo shoot in my bra?" At that point, I'm like 48 years old, gray hair, in a fucking bra and,
Jessica Cerato: On the top of a mountain in Sedona
Lesley Fornelli: un- totally in this like epic portal just being like, "Well, I guess this is what I'm doing."
Have the shoot, get the pictures, start sharing them online, and then my business I don't even know, it was like 1,000X'd. It wasn't even like 10X'd. It was just like, pooh. because this self-belief, this self-trust, this confidence of, being visible and owning that version of self How about you?
[00:28:00] We could ask you the same thing
Jessica Cerato: I know. Well, the, it's so interesting because, I feel like in, you know, this, in my business and in what I do, I've always had a strong self-belief, so much so that I probably have done some unhinged things in my business where I'm just like, "Oh, whatever. It doesn't matter." But what's so interesting to me is really my personal life, per se, has kind of, become more integrated.
Or, like for example, I laugh, like, and I... messaged you. so I have the photo shoot, but also, as part of that, I did a shopping day with Lesley and Nicole where, this is a hack that everyone needs to know, and if you are local to me, call Lesley. If not, call Lesley 'cause, you know, she'll come to you.
But I'm feeling this new sense of self, chicken or egg. I want clothes to really express who I am. My closet is nonexistent, and yet I [00:29:00] don't like to shop. Anyway, so Lesley and Nicole pre-shopped for me, right? Pre-scouted locations. And so I went out, and in just a few hours, which felt like five minutes, I came home with like a full wardrobe, right?
So many different things that I could pull together, and it was so interesting. The next day, the most mundane, normal thing in my life, I'm literally at the music lesson center with my kids for piano lessons, and this woman walks past me and she's like, "Oh my gosh, I love your shoes." And I didn't respond to her because I did not think she was talking to me.
And then Charlie like elbows me and she's like, "Mom, she's talking to you." Like, basically what I would tell Charlie, like, "Hey, Charlie, she's talking to you." And I looked up and I was like, "Oh, oh, oh." And I looked down and I was like, "Oh, right." Like, the [00:30:00] energy that I feel on the inside is literally now on my feet.
There's these, there's these like epic jelly sandals, which of course bring me back to the childhood. So we ended up having such this fun conversation of connection that I wouldn't have. And since then, so many other events or these little energetic exchanges have happened in my life where it's... I'm laughing.
Like, now I think people that I see every day have this realization that I work. I think before I don't think anybody thought I did anything. I don't know. and it's actually opening up conversations about my work and what I do because there is a definite expression of my internal frequency, and I think that gives people an opening, right?
Like, I think that's part of the communication. So maybe I'd love your jam on this. Like, we've talked a lot about what [00:31:00] clothes and external self-expression do for you as a person But I also think they do or communicate things to other people. What is that? Do you feel that?
Lesley Fornelli: Of course. again, it's, it's visibility. Having the fucking craziest deja vu right now.
Jessica Cerato: Oh, really?
Lesley Fornelli: Yeah, I love it. I think it's just the visibility. it is this openness, right? When people aren't afraid
Jessica Cerato: Oh
Lesley Fornelli: be expressed, you are open for the conversation
Jessica Cerato: Yes. 'Cause you're like, "Oh, they're willing to be seen, so they're going to be okay if I go up and see them." Versus if they feel your energy of like, "She doesn't want to be seen," of course they're not gonna come up to you, and because they don't feel... Yeah, it's so, it's so simple, and yet I didn't put it together [00:32:00] until just then.
So let's just jam a little bit on visibility here. why is it such a fill in the blank for women? Why is it scary? Why is it something they resist? Why is it like, what? Because I've had so many conversations. This is, like, such the funniest thing. I'm having so many conversations about visibility with women, okay?
And in my work, although I don't have a direct ratio of 50%, you know, men and women, I do have male clients, and visibility has not come up once in my conversation with them. And I just got the funniest, like, funniest visual of, like, men walking around a, a changing room, like, butt naked, and they don't care.
Like, their tummy's out. They're just like, "Eh." Like, right? Like, they're not... They're visible. [00:33:00] Like, they're cool with it. So what, like, what is the connection maybe or, like, this energetic, thread around visibility specifically for women
Lesley Fornelli: Well, I think it's because it is, the polarity. Like, just as many people who think, like, that a tuxedo T-shirt is, like, fucking cool, m- my opinion, there's gonna be equal amount of people who think that it's the opposite.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah
Lesley Fornelli: So it really opens you up to all. you're visible to everyone. And, and like, like magnetism, if you're magnetic, you're also repulsive
Jessica Cerato: Yeah
Lesley Fornelli: And what are we as women taught that it's not safe to be extra, extra quiet, extra loud, to be like back to the beige. I love that I'm actually wearing beige. But back to that beige zone, like women have been [00:34:00] taught, especially of like my gen, I won't throw you in my gen, Jess, but
Jessica Cerato: Sam. I'm-
Lesley Fornelli: but just that safety, like to be, just part of the pack is how you stay safe. And so I think women have this fear of like physical fear of being seen and oh gosh, we could really follow that thread, right? Like dark questions of well, what was she wearing?
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. It's so... And do you see how,
Lesley Fornelli: not
Jessica Cerato: how we just brought, like, such a depth into this, quote-unquote, "superficial" conversa- th- there's literally nothing superficial about what you just said
Lesley Fornelli: Yeah
Jessica Cerato: And so when you are experiencing this, or when you're working with people like this, how do you help them [00:35:00] with that?
Or how can people start to work on that? Because that is the root, right, Of like, again, the chicken or the egg. It's part of the equation, let's just put it that way. It's part of the equation. I think things can happen, in my energy, I think everyone is different. But I think what has really helped, you know, rapid expansion and quicker transition, and I would say even more efficiency, is really deleting the belief that things h- need to happen in a specific linear, logical order.
A, then B, then C. And I really want actually everyone listening to hear this, because I think this is where so many of us get stuck, is we want to do B and C, but we haven't done A yet. And so like we- we're like, "Okay, I need to completely finish A, and then I can do B, and then I can do C." Whereas I think really this whole conversation that we're having, [00:36:00] it's like A, B, and C happen concurrently.
They can happen concurrently. And in my opinion, I hate the word should, but I'm gonna use it, I think it's for everyone's best interest actually for them to happen concurrently, because obviously it's quicker, but also it makes each thing less important. And when things are important, they become a threat, right?
Do you know what I'm saying? It's just like it happens all the time. So I guess keeping that in mind, I don't wanna ask you such a linear question, but if we have someone how do you get them to the point of even being okay with being visible? Or what, what does your work look like with that?
Lesley Fornelli: self-honesty. You have to be visible with yourself.
Jessica Cerato: Mm.
Lesley Fornelli: You have to be honest with yourself. And that can be really huge for people because we've been, [00:37:00] many women, and we, I'll, I'll we myself in this, spent so much of our lives, being someone that we're not, being in performance, being in this is who I am in this situation, this is who I am in this situation.
And it happens for so long that we don't even know who we are.
Jessica Cerato: Hmm
Lesley Fornelli: So then you try to... Not try. You have desire to find a partner, build a business, do all these things in your life that require you to be your true self. And if you aren't starting in the truth of who you are, then the A, B, and C can't happen.
This is like the one, two, and three.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
So if we just get so 3D, practical, tangible, if someone wanted to become more of themselves or connect more with their true self over the [00:38:00] next 30 days, where might you tell them to start?
Lesley Fornelli: journaling and meditating just have that relationship with yourself. Connect in and, and follow that connection with your intuition. because really that's the muscle, that's the connection, that's the knowing. And move with the hits, right? You know it's your intuition if it's love.
If it's any sort of doubt or worry or anything else, it's not. And sometimes slash always it'll be something very small. Like actually this morning, I went to make myself a coffee because I told myself I didn't have enough time to have my lemon water. And because I have been in this practice of true connection with self, past me would've just overridden, being like, "Nope, coffee first, whatever.
Lemon water tomorrow." But I have [00:39:00] created such a connection with myself. I'm like, "You gotta fucking listen." So down went the kettle. I'm not gonna make my coffee. I'm going to have the lemon water. and it was just this really overwhelming, like, pride and I'm just so, like, proud of myself for continuing to listen to those small things because it just is so important.
And when we start building that trust with self and we start having those, that connection over in 30 days from now, then You'll just have such a different experience in your life because it's like you have your own back. It's like fucking flossing your teeth and washing your face before bed.
Same shit. It seems small, but man, is it important
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. And sometimes it's so interesting going back, I feel, to the mirroring, aspect you were talking about of like why or how we k- kind of tend to know like what could be a, a [00:40:00] catalyst or like information for us. It's like when we notice others, and I think also what I'm hearing is sometimes that can go both ways whereas like in order to cultivate it, like if you just think about like how do you
Here's me always using gardening and cooking metaphors of which I do neither.
Lesley Fornelli: Whatever. You totally do both. Don't let her fool you guys.
Jessica Cerato: If I wanna start, like if I wanna plant a tomato, like, you know, can I borrow a seed? Or like where can I get... Like, instead of like working really hard to try and, try to generate the seed myself, like sometimes, you know, in order to cultivate self-trust, yes, it ultimately has to come from within. But can you have others in your life from whom you can borrow or get that...
Or like, oh my God, am I really gonna use a sourdough analogy? Like, who are you gonna get the [00:41:00] starter from, right? I know, Erin Lemon, anyone. She doesn't even know that I'm mentioning her on the podcast. If you need a sourdough starter, contact Erin Lemon. but or, like belief or trust. Like, and so I feel that's with even a little bit of myself, of like part of me saying or the story that I don't like shopping or I don't, you know, prioritize it.
It's maybe I didn't trust myself or believe that I could pick out the things, right? Or choose, I d- it wasn't a skill that I had. And so I borrowed your belief. Like, I borrowed your trust. I borrowed your expertise. you were my sourdough starter, right? To
Lesley Fornelli: Biggest honor
Jessica Cerato: bring me the wardrobe, and then what happened?
Look, I received a wardrobe that I could wear as is. But what [00:42:00] started happening on day four? I chose a different shirt to go with the pants, right? Like, you start to, again, once you have the scaffolding or the starter, you then, it's not like I always... My gosh, can you imagine? It's not like I text you every morning and I'm like, "Lesley, what should I wear?"
Oh my gosh.
Lesley Fornelli: Good morning, Jessica. Welcome to your outfit of the day. Oh, although
Jessica Cerato: right? But it's more of this, okay, like I've, I've borrowed this, and now I have the seed, and if I nurture it, if I water it, it begins to take on a life of its own, right? Because again, it would've been different if you did all of this for me, I brought it into my closet, and I didn't wear it.
I didn't nurture it. I didn't water it. Like, and that has happened before probably with some people, and it's because it maybe wasn't that truest expression or you didn't [00:43:00] have someone as that mirror to be like, "No, like you've got this. This is your trust. This is your belonging." Or even, you know, business or not, if you have not had a photo shoot, and I'm not talking about family photos at Sears or Kmart like from when we were little.
Lesley Fornelli: We- we're not doing
Jessica Cerato: like wedding day photos. I'm talking about like photo shoot where like you are the subject, like right? I really encourage you to consider it because they are such portals for this expression. So I'd actually just love for you to talk about what you have seen, because not just me, you work with a lot of different women.
What types of things have you seen, happen as a result of like a photo shoot portal or a style upgrade or like a visibility session [00:44:00] with you? Like, we know there are portals, but even maybe what unexpected things, or like what energy do you feel shift in those moments that I think sometimes we, if we've never done them before, might not realize, oh, that actually happens
Lesley Fornelli: I don't even know where to start. It's just, like, so potent. It's so incredible. Shifts and expansion always happen. It's like 100% ROI when you do any of this, because you basically, again, back to self, you are coming into somebody else's belief, someone else's experience who's embodied it or moving through it, and you just want a little piece of that frequency that activates yours within,
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm.
Lesley Fornelli: that, that fans the flame of the trust or the hearing or the seeing or the curiosity in it.
And it just is so [00:45:00] beautiful to grant yourself that permission in exploring what that person is mirroring to you. So working with women in photo shoots, in, like, a matter of hours, these women are completely transformed into this new version of them. I just actually just finished a in-person session here in my office, and after 60 minutes, it was like this new version of self left the office
Jessica Cerato: So I feel all of your containers really do that, and I remember back to the retreat that you hosted in Sedona, where, FYI for everybody, international retreat, the first one Lesley ever hosts. She sells out before she even brings it publicly. I know that you have some other retreats coming up, so please, if a, if a retreat is on your radar, reach out to Lesley. but I [00:46:00] remember, one of the women, coming to the retreat, and on the way back, getting into a car on the way home, and the person driving was like, "Wait, who are you?"
And she was like, "You drove me to the airport, and now you're..." And it was, like, literally a different person, a different frequency. And, like, if that's not such a tangible, practical... Like, didn't even recognize the person when she returned from that trip. Like, wow
Lesley Fornelli: And that was so cool, 'cause I hadn't gone, I hadn't gone to the airport with that husband that drove the other women. But returning home, it was so cool to be in the car and him say to her, "Oh, I don't think we've met." And all the other women being like, "We literally... You drove us to the airport."
Jessica Cerato: Yeah
Lesley Fornelli: And, and, and I was just like,[00:47:00]
Jessica Cerato: Big smile, ear to ear. Yeah
Lesley Fornelli: Returning a new version of you, so much so that that person didn't even recognize you." And we were gone, what? Three days.
Jessica Cerato: Three days. Yeah
Lesley Fornelli: okay. So what you're saying about this, like, let's talk about your shopping experience and how you were just like, "I don't even know where to start. How does this work? Oh my gosh." And I, this is assumption, but I'm assuming you just watched me pull a bunch of clothes off the racks and were like, "Try this."
And then some of it was like, "no. Nope. Nope. Yep. Love. What, how about this? What if we do that? Do, do, do, do, do." And I, and I'm assuming part of you is like, "Oh, wait, there's no magic to this.
Jessica Cerato: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Lesley Fornelli: if I take this shirt with these pants and put them on? And if I don't like it, guess what? I'll take it off." And it is this coming into people's frequency [00:48:00] of being like, I ca- I can't figure it out. Like, I want what they have, or I want their knowledge, or I want to know what, what their medicine is. And the moment you come into that person's frequency, you're like, "Oh, wait, like there's nothing magic to this." And nine times out of 10, it's just, they're just trusting self and going with it
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. Yeah. Which is why if you bring it even to business, which is why, like, I know both of you, like, both you and I believe that, like, so many people see what works for someone else, and they take the framework, they take the five steps, and they do the thing, and of course it doesn't work. But then they get disappointed, and they make it mean something about them that it didn't work, whereas that's never the problem.
Like, this is, like, the best metaphor. If you go into someone else's closet and you try to wear [00:49:00] their clothes, it will never look as good on you as it does on them because it's not meant for you.
Lesley Fornelli: may- maybe Might look really cute.
Jessica Cerato: But really when we're... Yeah, like you said, it's like, it's, it's finding your own. It's finding what works best for you, and that comes through experimentation, the willingness to try, the willingness to look silly, right?
The willingness to put it on and see. And also, again, in transition, a lot of times when we're coming from something that we've experienced for so long, our mind tells us that what we're going into, we will also be there for a long time, and so you better like it or it better be the thing 'cause you're gonna be there for a while, and that is just not true.
Like, we always have the choice to continue evolve. Like, we don't have to stay anywhere for any length of time, right? I think that's also part of it [00:50:00] is like decisions feel big because they feel final or they feel permanent. And I mean, just think, like, let's use your career for a second. I bet you when you first became a teacher you felt that that was your career, what you would do for your life.
Is that true?
Lesley Fornelli: 100. Yes
Jessica Cerato: And so then of course when you try to do something new, your mind is equating, "Well, this is what I'm gonna do now for the rest of my life instead of that." And there is no finality. There is no... Like, it is a continuation of evolution and pivots. And just because these are the clothes in my closet for this season doesn't mean that they're gonna be here forever
Lesley Fornelli: And please don't let them be there forever.
Jessica Cerato: Oh my gosh, wait. Let's just, let's just talk about, let me do some math. Where's, where's my [00:51:00] calculator? okay. So right now, I'm kidding you not, 'cause I just wore it, I have, what was that? 20- I've had something in my closet for 25 years. So that means, oh my God, will I still be wearing these clothes in 2051?
Lesley Fornelli: No
Jessica Cerato: Let's hope not, right? Oh my gosh, that's so
Lesley Fornelli: Although there's some pretty iconic pieces in there now, so
Jessica Cerato: Although I could, 'cause they're,
Lesley Fornelli: totally. Very, like, hall of fame vibes. She wore this in 2026.
Jessica Cerato: my gosh. Okay, continuing the fun, let's do some quick fire style edition where I'm gonna give you some this or that, and I just want you to, to give us the, the hot Lesley take here. Okay.
Lesley Fornelli: Amazing.
Jessica Cerato: of these are gonna be hard.
Lesley Fornelli: in, okay, in the same, in the same thread, l- I have to put a caveat, like today as we're recording this, this is how I feel. By the time it gets released, [00:52:00] who knows? Maybe I've ch- maybe I've chosen the other one by then, and this is the, this is the power of permission to change your mind.
Man, did I stay like in my business so long in places I didn't desire to be because I was like, "Well, I made my mind up. This, I said this yesterday, so I have to follow through with that." Fuck that. Okay, so hit it.
Jessica Cerato: Could do it today. Okay. Gold or silver?
Lesley Fornelli: Cool
Jessica Cerato: Heels or flats?
Lesley Fornelli: Hmm, depends. Heels
Jessica Cerato: This is not part of the game. You have to decide. blazer or leather jacket
Lesley Fornelli: Hmm, blazer
Jessica Cerato: Bold lipstick or statement earrings?
Lesley Fornelli: Earrings
Jessica Cerato: Designer or thrifted?
Lesley Fornelli: Thrifted designer
Jessica Cerato: Fine, I'll give it to you. sunglasses, round or square?[00:53:00]
Lesley Fornelli: Going round
Jessica Cerato: Denim jacket or trench coat?
Lesley Fornelli: Denim jacket
Jessica Cerato: Diamonds or pearls?
Lesley Fornelli: Diamonds
Jessica Cerato: Shopping online or in person?
Lesley Fornelli: In person
Jessica Cerato: One more. Like, how much now can I think? One, one more.
Lesley Fornelli: That, that, did-- Were you surprised I answered them so quickly?
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, I was. And I'm
Lesley Fornelli: I do wanna go back and have a conversation about every single one, though.
Jessica Cerato: I'm laughing 'cause what I was gonna say, what came to me was like, what if you don't have a choice? 'Cause I was gonna say hair up or down, but I'm looking at both of us and I'm like, I never think we wear... Oh, you wear your hair up sometimes. So hair up or down
Lesley Fornelli: I guess
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. It's my only option. I'm glad you said that.
Lesley Fornelli: But we've, we've done your hair real cute. Nicole's done your hair really cute up
Jessica Cerato: You have, you have. okay, as we come to kind of the [00:54:00] close of this conversation for the podcast, you know, what I love about you is that you are so connected and in many ways so unexpected that I do wanna give you a little bit of an unstructured opening to kind of share anything else that is coming through that feels, I don't wanna say important 'cause that feels a little bit of pressure, but that just feels like it wants to come through that we haven't yet chatted about
Lesley Fornelli: Okay. Transition, energetic advantage Visibility Okay, this is really trippy because this, for some reason, like Mrs. Roper came through right when... You know Mrs. Roper from Three's
Jessica Cerato: yeah
Lesley Fornelli: She came through right at the beginning of the conversation, and I don't even know why, but I saw her in her muumuu and her permed hair, right?
And her, like, big necklace and pearls and stuff. And I'm forever be in, like, perimenopause or aging or [00:55:00] whatever is not this time to, like, slap on a muumuu and fade into the background. But I just had this, like, new, , respect for her in the fact that that was very self-expressive. And, and so maybe this is just, this is just a reminder to just be self-expressive, to do something without questioning yourself.
If you wanna perm your hair and slap on a muumuu, like, fucking see what happens for a day
Jessica Cerato: I love that.
All right. Well, I know we will put it all in the show notes, how you can connect with Lesley, ways to work with her. Also, just follow her on Instagram for all things style, the outfits of the day. but where else? Does that feel like a good place to send people?
Lesley Fornelli: I think so. Yep. For sure, everything. You never know what's gonna happen tomorrow, the next day, or what I decide to what I decide to put out there. So for sure, Instagram is, like, [00:56:00] a sure, a sure spot to find me
Jessica Cerato: Amazing. Well, thank you, Lesley, not just for this conversation, but for making me... Can I say a cool mom? I don't know if I'm yet at that status, but
Lesley Fornelli: Yeah, we can
Jessica Cerato: an expressed with style human, who of course, I have the tangible... Oh my gosh, am I really gonna cry? Yes. I have the tangible things like my wardrobe and the pictures, that I can show as a result of the amazing, impact that you've had in my life.
And also I want you to know that there are so many things that I don't have physical evidence of, but are still very important. So thank you, Lesley, for being here. Thank you for being a part of my life, and I'm just so excited for others to get to know you, because I know they will feel the same way.
So thank you, Lesley
Lesley Fornelli: No, Jess, you're the best. And honestly, [00:57:00] like the tears could go both ways. If you hadn't seen me in all of my versions of self and pushed me in my self-trust and my trust of connection and my psychic, my psychic knowings, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you. So same goes, sister. I love you
Jessica Cerato: You too. All right, everyone. We'll see you next time. Bye
Outro: Thanks for being here inside The Energetic Advantage. If today's episode open something for you, share it, tag it, or send to the person who popped into your mind. And remember, energy first strategy second. Your advantage has always been in you. Now it's time to lead with it. See you next time.
