Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to Energetic Advantage, the podcast where energy isn't woo, it's your edge. I'm your host, Jessica Cerato. Intuitive strategist, lifelong pattern decoder, lover of numbers, and energetic guide for visionary leaders. Around. Here we go. Energy first, strategy second. Every episode will give you a perspective, a tool, or a timeline shift that helps you lead from your power.
Because the truth is your energy is your most undervalued asset. Until you learn how to use it, get ready. You're about to have the advantage. Let's begin.
Episode Intro: Okay, before we get into today's episode, I have a little update. And, you know, honestly, where we are right now, this episode is coming out at exactly the right time, even though I recorded it a few weeks ago. So if you've been following along with the Inner Compass app, you'll know that it has been a journey.[00:01:00]
Let's just call it that. So the good news is the app is live on Android. If you have Google Play, you know exactly where to go to get Inner Compass. It's beautiful. People are using it, and the feedback has really been incredible. So thank you to those out there who are using Inner Compass on your Android devices and loving it.
And Apple is still Apple-ing. And I've done everything I can do. I've submitted, resubmitted, called, asked questions, advocated, had conversations. I've tried to understand the process that, you know, sometimes makes absolutely no sense. When we do things for the first time, we don't know what we don't know.
And this week, I realized that somewhere along the way, I had started organizing my entire business around waiting for this one domino to fall, for this one domino, this decision by Apple to go live [00:02:00] there, was kind of stopping the rest of the dominoes that I had behind it. You know, once Apple approves the app, then I'll do this, and then I'll launch this, and then I'll move on to the next thing.
And, you know, I had a day yesterday, where finally I was just like, "Mom, close your ears. Fuck it. I'm stepping around the domino." Because here's the thing, my business existed before this app, and it was successful before the app. My work mattered before this app, and my business is going to exist and be successful after the app is live there too.
So I am done making Apple's timeline the prerequisite for my own momentum. And before I tell you what that means for me, I wanna ask you the question: Is there a domino in your life right now? Is there something that you are waiting on or something that you [00:03:00] have made the prerequisite for something else that you really wanna do?
And maybe the invitation for you is, can you step around it also? So how am I stepping around it? My Q4 forecast, which I am calling Take a Bow, is happening. Now, my quarterly forecasts are the anchors, of the year where hundreds of people join and we gather and we tap into the energy of the three upcoming months in an effort to ground, to feel more confident and to plan.
And if Apple is live by then, amazing. We're gonna celebrate on that call, you better believe it. And if it's not, we're still doing it because this is the distinction between waiting and surrendering. Surrender isn't necessarily sitting still. It's, it isn't giving up your agency.
Surrender is simply recognizing this particular thing is not mine to move right now. [00:04:00] Okay, so what is? Where can I move? Where can I create? What decision can I make? Again, where have I accidentally stopped my own momentum because I have decided that something else has to happen first? And that's why I want you there at the Q4 forecast.
quarterly planning is one of the most underrated tools in life and business. People a lot of times do the year ahead or they do month to month, but in my experience, quarterly is the best because, well, you know what I'm gonna say, numbers, numerology. Four groups of three. Four is structure, the foundation, the container that holds something, and three is creation, expression, movement, the energy that wants to make something.
So when we break a year into four quarters of three months each, we are essentially giving structure to creation. And so I'll put all the information in the show notes. If you [00:05:00] are a member of Inner Compass, if you have the app on Google Android, make sure you check your email because you have special access.
If you are on the wait list for Apple, for the iOS version of Inner Compass, check your email as well because I've given you a special promo code so you can access this. And for the rest of you, check the show notes. This is not just one-way conversation. This is where you and I, we get together on Zoom, this group of people, to really tap into the energy.
I take you through a guided visualization. I give you a full workbook and planning guide that you can start to fill out while we're together and continue as you go through the quarter. There are time for questions and answers, I guarantee you will leave this call, more confident in Q4. And it's especially important because October is a preview of 2027.
I'll get into this a little bit more on the October forecast in just a few weeks. But [00:06:00] numerologically, this happens every year, where we get a little preview of the year ahead in October. So if you're gonna join any, any quarterly forecast, you wanna join Q4 because it's not only about Q4. I'm also gonna bring in 2027 for you, which feels like a beautiful, double whammy.
If you can't make it live, no problem. Sign up and you can get access to the replay, and you'll still be in the energy of the experience. So we'll put everything in the show notes, and I'd really love to see you in the Q4 forecast. so again, back to today's episode. It is so well-timed. As we say, you can't make this shit up because today we are talking about breath.
And I love talking about the energetic advantage hidden inside things that we're already doing every single day. And there is no better example than breathing . We all breathe. We have to. Uh, you're doing it right now without even thinking about it. But now that I made you think about it, are [00:07:00] you focused on your breath?
Because what happens when something automatic becomes intentional? What happens when your breath becomes something that you can actually work with? And so my guest today is Alyse Bacine, and she has spent 25 years working at the intersection of psychology, of trauma healing, breathwork, and energy work.
She has a master's degree in counseling psychology. She spent a decade working as a school counselor, and she has created the Metamorphosis Method, which brings together clinical mental health, somatic healing, breathwork, and energy work. And she's brought it together in a way that no one else has, and in a, in a way that makes it a very tangible and practical tool so that we can enjoy life a little more, which is why I just know she and I are so aligned on our why and our so what for our work.
you know, I love so many things about this conversation, but one of the things that I love the most [00:08:00] is this idea that we already have access to so much more than we realize. You know, most often the thing that changes the energy isn't out there. It's not the approval or the answer or the next domino falling, right?
It's coming back to what is already available to you, even something as simple as your next breath. So wherever you are right now, take a breath and let's get into my conversation with Alyse
Jessica Cerato: welcome Elise. I'm so excited you're here
Alyse Bacine: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited for this
Jessica Cerato: Of course. We were just talking a little bit before and how you had, like, popped into my awareness for, like, a couple days in a row, and I was kind of like, I mean, obviously happy that you were, but also curious about, like, what is the message here? And I'm like, you know what? I think this is just an invitation to have a conversation.
, And soon as I reached out and then we planned this podcast, like, so many [00:09:00] questions for you have come through, and this really excites me because I know you hear maybe some podcasts where, ... I don't know. Like, I just love to be genuinely curious. , I have-- I'm gonna ask you questions that I have no idea what the answers are, and I'm really excited.
So, ah, yay.
Alyse Bacine: Yeah, me too. Let's do it
Jessica Cerato: Um, okay. Well, before we jump in, I'd just like to ask you to do a quick introduction of yourself. , Who you are, kind of where you are in your work, just to set kind of the groundwork b- before I jump in with these hard-hitting questions.
Alyse Bacine: Yes. Okay. So my name is Elise Bhasin. I'm a breathwork and trauma expert. The short, shortest version of the story, , so I discovered breathwork when I was 19, um, in 2001, and I was at a time in my life where I was just looking for answers as to why I was miserable basically. I was struggling with an eating disorder and anxiety, [00:10:00] and I was just trying to understand why I was feeling how I was feeling because, like, I didn't have anything, you know, outwardly bad happen to me in my life, or at least I thought so at the time.
, So I discovered yoga, and I started working at a yoga studio, and that's where I discovered breathwork, and I just was really drawn to breathwork. And after I did one group class, I then did, , a weekend training, and then I did, , three breathwork or training program... , nine-month breathwork or training programs in a
Jessica Cerato: You are all in.
Alyse Bacine: Yeah. And I followed different teachers around, and I did a teacher training. Like, I just did... , i learned breathwork, and I started teaching it and sharing it when I was in my early 20s, so it's something that's been with me for the last 25 years. And then also, , i have a bachelor's in education, and I knew I didn't wanna be a teacher, but I went back to school, and I got my master's degree in counseling psychology, and I was a school counselor [00:11:00] for over 10 years working in the inner city with traumatized children.
Fast-forward to 2019, I just knew... I knew at some point I was gonna do something other than be a school counselor. I just didn't know what that looked like. And then in 2019, I Started just, I started working with a coach 'cause I was like, ", what am I doing?" Like, "What is this?" Yeah. And then I started my business in late 2019, early 2020, which, you know, I didn't know at the time, but I was about to be able to be home.
And so, you know, in March of 2020 we went home, and I never went back to work, , in person. I worked virtually until the end of, , December 2020. So I've been doing my business full time since January of 2021. And over that time, , I developed my methodology, which is called the Metamorphosis Method, where I combine, you know, my years as a breathworker and healer with my experience and knowledge as a school counselor.
So my methodology [00:12:00] is really based on how to use a really powerful tool like breathwork to pinpoint the core wounding or unmet needs from childhood that are slowing you down in your life today. And I really believe very deeply in making things practical, tangible, and, like, how do we actually make this change your day-to-day life?
'Cause I've been in this space for so long, and I've seen so many people just be on this healing journey forever, but nothing actually changes in their life. So my work is really based around taking the information that you get and using it and applying it so that your day-to-day life changes, and you really become a different version of yourself.
So, um, yeah. So that, that's what I do now.
Jessica Cerato: it just, like, clicked for me. Obviously, there are many reasons, , why I feel connected with you, but that last thing you just said is just a philosophy of mine that is, , deep in my core of, like, so [00:13:00] what? Like, okay, so what are you gonna do about it?
Alyse Bacine: Yeah,
Jessica Cerato: I just love that you said that, and we're gonna...
Like, I'm so excited now, even more so for this conversation because that's where the heart of it really lies for me is, like, yes, having these modalities and these methods, but, like, what does that do? How can that help? , And you know, I was laughing. I would like to start a little bit at the beginning.
Obviously, it's more than just breathwork, but at the core of it, I also think there's just something beautiful of having a tool as simple as our breath, especially right now. The energy is really calling for simplicity. , There's an energetic advantage hidden in something that all of us do all the time, which is breathe, and yet what happens or what can happen when something that we do kind of automatically becomes, like, more intentional?
[00:14:00] Like, when your breath becomes something that you can work with, , what have you seen happen there?
Alyse Bacine: Yeah. So it's interesting 'cause obviously over time I have refined and refined my answer to this question just from working with so many people, and also seeing the changes in my own life. And, you know, from a more, like, mechanical, scientific perspective, you know, the breath is oxygen, and moving the oxygen in the body creates all different types of benefits, , obviously.
However, what I truly believe after, you know, just observing so many people, is that the body has a natural intelligence, and the body wants to heal. Like, it wants to create homeostasis. So a lot of, most people, all people , since childhood, were not given the tools or the modeling to successfully [00:15:00] handle their emotions.
So I'm sure, you know, you remember people saying to you like, "Oh, don't cry." Or, you know, you learn that your emotions and your emotional experience will make other people uncomfortable, or you might even get hurt by the people around you if you are expressing your emotions. So we learn to suppress them.
And also in childhood, if you don't have anybody who's able to be present for you while you're having an emotional experience and give you context for it, a lot of kids will just hold it in and then also internalize that there's something wrong with them, 'cause it's like, "Well, I'm having this experience, but no one around me is, so what's wrong with me?"
Right? So when we're holding all of this suppressed emotional energy, it comes out in different ways, through symptoms like depression or anxiety, , or just recurring negative beliefs. It can also show up in physical symptoms in the body, which we can talk about more later when we talk [00:16:00] more about the body.
But it, all of that stuff is being held and just kind of creates th- these patterns of energy that run on repeat, right? So when we use a tool like the breath with intention and with consciousness, we create the conditions or the circumstances for the body to heal and process that stuck emotional energy that's in the body.
So we're really creating a space and the circumstances for healing and transformation to take place, and that's why I always say the funny thing about breathwork is you can never predict what's gonna happen, but it's always the right thing, and it's always what you are ready to process and release at that time, you know?
And it's not something that you can force. It's not something that you can be like, "Okay, I'm gonna heal my mother wound right now." , That's not how this works. Even though you can, like, decide you're gonna look at that or whatever, there's [00:17:00] still gonna be aspects of it and emotions and things that come up that you can't predict or control.
But you can create this, this space, and the other piece of it that's really important is safety. So when you are, using a tool like breathwork, having someone who's holding a safe space for you is probably the most important thing, because emotions, I always give this analogy of if you were walking through a desert and you sprained your ankle, but you had to get to water, right?
You probably wouldn't even feel your sprained ankle because you knew you had to keep walking until you get to the water. And then when you get to the water, you're, you'll be like, "Oh my God, my ankle hurts so bad," right? That's kind of how emotions are. So when you have emotions, especially in childhood, but even in adulthood, if there are n- not any safe spaces or conditions for you to feel and process those emotions, you won't.
It'll be like the sprained ankle. You're just gonna [00:18:00] keep trying to get to the water. So what I notice for everybody that I work with is when I create that space of safety, the emotions just start to come up and process, and a lot of people are like, "I didn't even know that I was feeling that way," or, "I didn't even know I was holding that," because the space has been created now for them to feel and process it
Jessica Cerato: Okay. There's so much in there that I wanna pull out. The first is just the interesting observation that, you know, you and I are both physically dominant in our chart, right? So there is this physicality that perhaps we can feel ahead of maybe others who aren't physically dominant. But the second piece that I wanna bring up is the very thing that when you just said that, I was just interest- like, so curious about the reception of it being in such duality of a person could hear that and be like, "Yes, anything can happen in breathwork.
[00:19:00] Yes, I'm so excited to do it because I am ready for that." And at the same time, someone equally saying, "Oh my gosh, anything can happen in breathwork, and that is the exact reason why I don't wanna do it, because I wanna be certain of it." But then I love that analogy you bring in of like it's ... It can feel safer when we cannot predict the certainty of what will happen, but we can create conditions with the right people there to support us to make sure that no matter what happens, we are, we are safe.
Alyse Bacine: Yeah, and also the other thing too is that it's important to know that you're not going to ... Nothing's gonna come up that you can't handle, you know? And, and the other thing I wanna say too is it's very important to do this deep work with somebody who's skilled at holding space and can support you. But beyond that, it's not gonna be like you're opening Pandora's box and you're not gonna be able to, to, [00:20:00] you know, put it all back in or you're not gonna be able to, like, live your life.
I mean, yeah, there might be uncomfortable emotions that come up, but the thing is you're already feeling them.
Jessica Cerato: Totally
Alyse Bacine: of work to avoid them. And when you go into it and you really allow yourself to feel what's there, the feeling itself doesn't take more than two minutes before it comes in and you feel it and it starts to, to shift.
And then on the other side, it's you feel so much better. Not only do you feel lighter or freer, but also the other thing that happens is you have a level of clarity and understanding that you didn't before. And a lot of times people will feel like all of these things that are going on are so confusing or murky.
Like they know like, "Well, I have this, this issue that I keep having with my partner over here and this issue with my boss over here and this issue with money over here," right? And it all feels like they're these, like, separate things that are murky [00:21:00] and confusing. But really it's all one thing.
Jessica Cerato: I love that because it is like it, you're actually using something as simple as the breath brings it back to even the simplicity of it, of like the core. Like what is the, the core wound? And then that just comes... So instead of having you go in thinking, "I have to solve..." Your linear brain is like, "I have to solve three problems because I see this in three different areas."
I love how you just said that. And actually it can be more like the trunk of the tree or the core wound where it has like these different branches
Alyse Bacine: Right, and then you start to see that the core wound, whatever that pattern is, you're seeing all of these areas of your life through that lens, or you're experiencing all those areas of your life through that pattern. So when you start to shift it and you have some levity from it, then all of those things seem obvious.
And I can't even tell you, it happens with everybody. They're like, "Oh my God, I get like, this makes so [00:22:00] much sense now," or, "Oh, I see what's going on here," or like, "Oh, I know what I need to do." But it doesn't happen from them trying to figure it out. It happens from them processing the emotions that are there, being able to see the pattern, how they were seeing something, and then everything kind of opens up.
And I, it, it happens with everybody. And, and that's why I truly believe in, like I always say I'm not in the business of telling people what to do, because that's not what healing is or that's not what transformation is. It's allowing someone to process their own emotions and come to their own conclusions and understandings on their own.
And of course, I can give people like, "Well, this is what I see happening, and this is, you know, what..." I can kinda lay it out. But at the end of the day, you know, I have so many people who will say to me, "Well, my therapist said I need to set boundaries." And it's like, well, that shit's not gonna work because you're, you're, you...
And then it's like, "Or my therapist said I need to break up with my boyfriend." And it's like, so [00:23:00] then you're not gonna break up with your boyfriend, and then you're gonna feel bad about it 'cause your therapist said to do it. , That's not, , like, that only makes it worse, you know? We have to, like, process what's there so then you can see everything clearly, and you make your decisions based on that clarity.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. I think that brings me to the curiosity of, like, this embodiment, of, , bringing the body into it, right? Because, okay after your work or during even like, were you bringing breathwork into your work with the kids in school? Or was that more of like a traditional,
Alyse Bacine: Well, I was a little bit to the degree that they could do it. You know, kids are very different than adults when it comes to, , this type of work because kids, their brains are not fully developed and they, they don't have the same kind of like reflection ability that adults do. So one of the things that I truly believe when it comes to kids, and this is after years of working with kids, is that really all kids need [00:24:00] is for somebody to be present with them.
And I learned this over time when, you know, I would work with all these kids that have these really horrible things going on in their lives, and there's no way I could fix them or solve them or really do anything. But what I realized is that all I needed to do was be present with them, and I was most likely the first person in their life who'd ever been truly present with them and just listening and there and didn't have an agenda, wasn't trying to tell them what to do or anything.
And that in itself is a huge gift, and that is-- creates like that safety so that they can feel connected to not only me, but to themselves and kind of start to make sense of what's going on. And that's really the only objective I would have with working with kids
Jessica Cerato: And I'm laughing. What I'm gonna say feels like very aha moment to me, and I'm laughing. You're probably gonna be like, "Yeah, no shit, Jess. Like, this is the whole point." But I'm just gonna say it anyway, is I was just like, wow, [00:25:00] like maybe also that's the important piece about breathwork is, you being present with yourself.
Alyse Bacine: Yes. That's a huge, that's a huge piece of it. No, and I mean, I know it sounds simple, but it's actually
Jessica Cerato: not. It's so not
Alyse Bacine: No, it's not, and that's actually the first thing I teach my certification students is when they facilitate their first practice breathwork session, I actually tell them not to say anything, 'cause everyone thinks they need to say something, and they need to whatever.
And I'm like, "No, just be present," because the presence, like, your presence is enough. That's what I tell everybody. And to... So that you can experience yourself being present with this person and holding that space, but also being present with yourself. Because when you do that, either, you know, as a facilitator or even just being present with your own emotions like you would in a breathwork session, you're essentially doing for yourself what you needed someone [00:26:00] to do for you in childhood.
So when you walk yourself through that, there's like an alchemy that takes place where you have now walked yourself through this thing, and now you have the strength and the wherewithal and the confidence, like, within yourself that you can feel, and you don't have to run away from different emotions, or you don't have to be scared of like, "Oh my God, what's gonna happen?"
Because you have started to gradually expand your capacity to feel, and that's what this is really about. 'Cause this isn't about, "Oh, I get to this place where I only feel good all the time." Like, that's not what the human experience is. But it's the willingness to feel. If you're willing to feel the pain and the sadness and the hurt and the shame and the guilt and all of that, then you also are gonna be able to feel a wider range of excitement, joy, gratitude, happiness, love, all of it.
You expand your capacity for more of all of [00:27:00] it.
Jessica Cerato: It's so beautiful, and that's really I think where hopefully for a lot of people this goalpost that was previously, like you said, of like one thing is now people are realizing, wow, , there is so much more than I ever had thought was possible. And so it's not just about regulating or, like, healing.
It's a verb, not a whatever they say, right? Okay. Where... Oh my gosh, my brain is, , going in so many different directions. Okay. I'm so super because also what I love about your work is you're working with, , your method works with, , the mind, the body, , the energetic field, and, like, all of these together.
So I first want to kind of ask about when we kind of only work with one or, like, , why all three? , Can someone intellectually understand why, , what their pattern is and why they have it, and [00:28:00] still be, like, physically or energetically stuck in it?
Alyse Bacine: Yeah. I mean,
Jessica Cerato: y- take this triangle maybe. Yeah, like, maybe check this triangle, like, this triangle, right, that I'm seeing of, like, the mind, body, and the energy.
Can you give us a few examples of, like, why you know for sure that all three have to come together? Like, two out of, two out of three ain't bad, but it actually is not
Alyse Bacine: Right. Because it's all, you know, it's all part of who we are and we hold the things that create the pattern or the blocks or whatever in all of the places, right? So f- for example, you know, when we do something like traditional talk therapy, and again, I'm not bashing it. I think, I think it's good in a lot of ways, but we're really only addressing the mind, right?
So, so s- talk therapy can be good for making sense of what happened in the past, why you're feeling how you're feeling, what the pattern is, but it's really hard to change it [00:29:00] if you're only addressing it from the mind because it's also living in the body, and it's also creating a pattern of energy that continues to happen in your energy field, in your body.
So, you know, I always give the example of,, you go to therapy and you realize, "Okay, I'm a people pleaser. Okay, I'm not gonna people please." And it's like, well, there's a reason why you're people pleasing, and if you want it to stop, like you would have already. And the reason why you're people pleasing is because you decided as a young child, and you're not, you don't remember it, that was gonna be the way that you stayed safe.
That was gonna be the way you survived. You got your needs met. You received love because as a young child, we all have this intrinsic knowing that if we don't have somebody that loves us and cares for us and nurtures us, then we won't survive. So that people pleasing is a survival mechanism. So for you to stop doing that, it's literally gonna [00:30:00] feel like you're gonna die or something bad is gonna happen, and you're gonna feel that in your body.
, It's gonna feel like, "Ugh." Like you're gon- It's you would go into a freeze state or, you know, how- however it looked
Jessica Cerato: Is your
Alyse Bacine: So yeah, so we can't just address the behavior. It's kind of like, , going to the gym or something. , If somebody's like, "Oh, I'm really struggling to, like, lose weight or stay in a routine," and I was just like, "Well, go to the gym."
And it's like, well, don't you think they would've gone to the gym already if they like So it, it, it's the same thing. And then, , as far as, like, the body goes, all of these things are being held in the body, right? And on- once you start to use a tool like the breath, you can actually start to feel where certain things are being held in your body, you know?
And a lot of times people will have physical symptoms, , they have, like, hip pain or tightness, like, in their shoulders or tightness in their throat or their heart, and that's, like, all places where you feel constricted or you're holding energy. [00:31:00] So once you can start to move and release that from the body, then starting to do something like change a behavior becomes a lot easier.
And then it's also about noticing, , what it feels like in your body, like how the energy is moving when you're operating from a certain place. So for, to go back to the people-pleasing example, that would be when you are operating from this coping mechanism or this childhood wound, right? So w- I always tell my clients, "Okay, when you are feeling like you need to people please, or when you feel like you don't have power in a situation, how is the energy moving in your body?
Like, what does it feel like?" You know? And a lot of the times it'll be like, "Oh, well, I have s- like a, a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach," or, "I, , drop my chest and I feel like I'm, like, hunched over," or, you know, "I feel, lightheaded," or whatever it is. So you start to notice, like, how the energy operates [00:32:00] when you're operating from this wounded place versus when you're operating from your power, and this is, , the way that we kind of make this determination and start to switch and be able to apply this in the day-to-day.
when you're operating from your power, what does that feel like in your body? How does the energy move when you're operating from your power? So once you can start to bring awareness to this, but you have to be able to be in your body in order to feel it, because if you're not, then you're not gonna be able to know, right?
You're just going to be, like, on autopilot. So the body kind of shows you, , what it feels like energetically and physically when you're operating from this place. So not only do you have the mental awareness that, "I people please because in childhood I didn't feel safe, you know, around my parents unless I did that," or whatever it is.
You have that awareness, but then also in the moment when it's happening, you know because you know what it feels like in your body. And then you can use the [00:33:00] tool of the breath to start to process the stuck emotional energy, the fear and the shame that's holding that pattern in place so that you can start to more and more easily shift in the moment from that feeling in the body of being in the wounded inner child trigger to operating from your power.
And gradually it gets easier and easier where you don't really have to think about it. You can just kind of feel it and then you can shift, and then you can start to show up differently in each moment.
Jessica Cerato: And do you think the wound goes away? , Does, what's your belief about that? Like, I love how you just really described, like, how people actually change, right? 'Cause I think, okay But then it's like chicken or the egg. , Do we continue to do that and the wound gets smaller, easier? , What happens to
Alyse Bacine: So your relationship, yeah, so your relationship [00:34:00] to it changes. And I would say that certain ways it shows up will completely change. And you'll even forget about it. I'll have clients that I'm like, "Well, remember like a year ago when you were like worried about this?"
And they're like, "What?" W- like they don't even remember 'cause it's not like a thing anymore. So certain ways it shows up will really change. Like an example of this would be, you know, if you were starting a business and you were really afraid to show up on social media or something, and that was a way that, you know, your fear of abandonment or fear of rejection was showing up, but you completely shifted that, right?
And you mastered that, and that's not showing up anymore. So yes, that, in that way, it's completely gone. But it m- it'll start to show up in subtler ways, and it just gets subtler and subtler. But what happens is you really start to master your own like inner practice of noticing when it comes up and being able to shift it, and it gets easier and [00:35:00] easier.
So like something that, you know, for me, for example, would have taken me a day or two to move through and shift now takes me like two minutes or 20 seconds. You know? So it's, it's like developing this practice within yourself of being able to use the tools, process the emotions, bring awareness, and shift, and then it gradually gets easier and easier.
And then , the way that I would say it operates is, yes, you can get to a point where that wound is, not something you're regularly experiencing. However, when you grow, right? So say like now I'm like, "Oh, I wanna start this new leg of my business," or, "I'm gonna write a book," or, "I'm gonna do this," or whatever.
Whenever you hit a new level of expansion, it'll come up again in some way, right? And depending on what the thing is, it could come up in a bigger way or a smaller way, but , the point is [00:36:00] you know what it is and you know how to handle it. You might need support. We all need support. But at the end of the day, it's not catastrophic.
You're not spinning out in it forever 'cause you know what's going on.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. I think that is just so important for everyone to hear, or I would actually like everyone to hear this because it kind of goes back to this concept of, , I will do this or I will do X, Y, and Z, when I'm healed or when... And, and it's... Right? And it's like, well, no. Like, it's like good luck with that.
Like, see you next lifetime, maybe try it. But it's also this permission of, , it's not failing I don't even know how I wanna say this. Like, the goal is not perfection, I love how you said that, of just like even more just being efficient or moving through it more quickly or having less, , emotional charge around it because we want to grow and expand.
And I think sometimes when we put a [00:37:00] goal of like, well, when this is healed or focus on the, quote-unquote, "healing" as the goal rather than the, it's, it's like the vehicle to do the things that
you really wanna do
Alyse Bacine: Exactly, and that-- 'cause it's, that's not how this works because it's like you don't... That, that's not the function. So the function is, and I always say, when we're going on this journey of transformation, we have to pair the healing with the action.
'Cause if we don't, we don't pair those two, then if you're just doing the healing, you're just gonna like spin out in the healing, and yes, you might heal, but you're not gonna go anywhere. And then if you're just doing the action, you're gonna hit a wall because all your stuff's gonna come up and you're not handling it, so eventually you're gonna burn out or something, you know, like a frying panel fall off the shelf and hit you in the head or whatever.
Like something will happen. So we have to pair those two things, and I always say, it's like, "Okay, so I wanna do this thing, but I'm scared." We're gonna work through what's coming up that is [00:38:00] making you scared," but it's never gonna be like, "Okay, now I'm not scared." It's gonna be like, "No, now it still feels edgy, but I can do it, and then I'm gonna do it, and then on the other side, there's gonna be more shit that comes up, and then I'm gonna handle that on the other side, and then I'm gonna be ready to take the next action."
And it, the same thing goes on and on. So the one thing I always say to people is if you are doing anything that is growth-oriented, especially like starting a business, just know that shame is gonna come up. Like your shit is going to come up. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it. It doesn't mean you have to pause.
It doesn't mean that you failed. You just have to know how to navigate and have context for what's happening and the tools to move through it so that you can keep going. It is... Like that journey is the healing journey. It's not like I have to heal and then I can start a business or write a book or whatever it is.
Like the book or the business or whatever, that is the thing that will help you heal [00:39:00] because you have to become that person who does that, and you have to move through the stuff that is stopping you from being that person right now, or else you would already be there.
Jessica Cerato: This is all about the identity, right? And that's the huge energy really culminating in September, but like this whole year of like being the person who, or like this identity. When someone kind of expands and, like, works through these patterns and, you know, continues to do more while at the same time, , this healing is happening, what happens with your identity? I know this is such, , an out there question of, , philosophical, but, like, what do you feel about that?
, Do you feel our identity... Actually, I'm not even gonna give you options. It's not like an A, B, C, or D question. Sorry. , What, like, what happens with our identity?
Alyse Bacine: I feel like you become more of y- of who you really are. [00:40:00] You know? I think that what happens is a lot of times for people is that when they start to grow and change and, value themselves more and stop making everything about other people or, identifying as who they can be for other people, they have this, like, the, you know, conflict where it's like, "If I do this, then I'm going to lose my partner.
I'm gonna lose my friends, or I'm gonna lose something." And the reason why we feel that way is because in early childhood, - most people have this conflict between the authentic self and the self they had to create to get their needs met. And we learn on a deep, like, subconscious level that if we are the authentic self, then we aren't going to get our needs met, or we're gonna lose love, or we're gonna lose connection.
So we then associate being that authentic self with losing connection or not getting our needs met or some sort of pain or [00:41:00] loss. But as you gradually move through that, and yeah, you might lose friends or some- like, but it's all f- because that's what's supposed to happen, you know? And it's all, , in service to you becoming more of yourself.
So I think, I don't think necessarily your identity changes. I think you start to become more of it. You know? You start to become more of who you know you're supposed to be and who you truly are, and you start to feel more comfortable in it and, , claim it and own it and value it. I think that's the biggest thing, is valuing it to the point where you put it before all of the other things, right?
And you are really honest with yourself about what things you say yes to, what, who you are in relationships because you value your energy, your desires, your needs more than [00:42:00] doing what you think you're supposed to do for everyone else or for the world or at work or whatever. So you just really become more of yourself, and you take up more space.
You're more in your body, you know, and you're, you're owning all of it.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, it was so, so fascinating 'cause I was just talking about this yesterday in my mastermind about, really this identity. It's like you said, it's like not becoming something else. It's like the layers of the onion or, , things kind of falling away, so the middle, you at your core, , can shine more brightly for other people, but you feel it more.
And I just laugh from, like, a numerological sense. It makes sense all you're talking about with, , the childhood,, from zero to 12, like we're re- we're coded differently than we are from, like, age 13 to 26. , Different things become more important to us. And when that shifts, of course, like you said, like we, we shift to, , really preserve what is most important to us.
And, you know, at [00:43:00] 45, we, , here's this for a metaphor,
Alyse Bacine: turned 45.
Jessica Cerato: we, yeah, yeah. Like, we give birth to ourselves. Like, at 44 we are pregnant, I guess, with ourselves, if you can put it in those terms, and at 45 it is a spiritual rebirth where we have the same energy we do when we're born. And so that's that period of time, 42 to 49, when a, , we're coming back home to ourselves.
And we become, obviously, what you're saying, the most important, like we are prioritizing that. But to people looking in, or even society says, like, "Well, that's like a midlife crisis." Like, you're changing, , you're moving. But it's, no, it's like we're actually coming closer to who we are
Alyse Bacine: Yeah, and it might look like you're changing, and it doesn't mean you're not evolving, but it's really more just of allowing who you are to start to develop, you know? To, like you're creating that space for like the seeds that were [00:44:00] already there to like start to grow in ways that you hadn't allowed them before because of all like the fear and the programming and the who you had to be for other people.
And now it's like you're allowing those things to blossom and you're valuing them, you're nurturing them, you're watering those seeds. So it's not... Yes, it looks like an evolution 'cause it is, it's a growth, but it was always there.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah.
Alyse Bacine: always who you are
Jessica Cerato: And it's so interesting how, you know, when you talk about when kind of this identity shift is happening, there is the fear of losing, yes, , or whatever that is, people, relationships, jobs, opportunities. But at the same time, when we reduce the noise or the layers of the onion, our true identity, our true self becomes stronger.
The frequency, the resonance becomes stronger, and therefore, we start to attract people who were maybe all always there, of course, [00:45:00] but , they feel it more strongly, and then they start to come closer. So in terms of you and your, because you are 30 to 45, your, your... What is, , what is surprising to you about that?
We were talking a little bit before about this, of like, , what are, what is becoming magnetized to you now that perhaps... I mean, obviously that attraction maybe was always there, but because you had other things in the field, , what is coming closer to you in terms of your work and your business that is surprising to you, but at the same time, maybe not surprising because you're like, "Yeah, duh, this was always me"?
Alyse Bacine: Um, yeah, I know we talked a little about this before we started recording because I have been, like, going deep into my, like, SEO data and just looking at, what people are searching for and how they're finding me. And, , and Google s- sees me as an expert in the mother wound, which I am.
I mean, that's a huge part of my work. And, you know, I have this joke with all my clients of, it always goes back to your relationship with your
Jessica Cerato: It's your mom
Alyse Bacine: Like, literally tell me [00:46:00] anything that's going on in your life, and I will relate it back to that. Like, it's all... Because if you think about it, , it's, it is your first relationship.
It is your-- It creates an imprint for how you relate to everything, yourself included. And if you think about it from just even a physiological, energetic perspective, when you are developing in your mother's womb, you're literally being created from the cells of her body. And, like, what are cells? They're energy.
They're consciousness. , You take on her consciousness, you know? And a lot of the work that I do when it gets beyond the relational stuff is about identity and realizing that you, a lot of times, are unconsciously identifying with your mother in terms of, like, how she looks at the world or how she feels about herself or how she feels about [00:47:00] money or friendships or whatever it is, and really being able to look at, , "Is this actually me or am I identifying with this unconsciously?"
Because when you think about your mother initially when you, , are coming into this world, , you don't know that you are a separate person from her, right? And then, , gradually over time you realize that and, you know. But there's also these, more subtle unconscious ways that we still identify as and are part of her and in some ways feel loyal to that or attached to that, you know?
, Really peeling back those layers and understanding how she impacts just the way that you move through the world and what your internal dialogue is, how you feel about yourself. There's so much there beyond just, , your relationship with her. And then there's also the piece around trauma where [00:48:00] we will take on our mother's trauma and through various ways.
You know, either she'll unconsciously dump it on us or we take it on in the womb or we identify with it as part of who we are even though it, it's not. , A lot of times, that's, like, the deeper work of really just, , peeling back the layers of, , what's actually happening here? How is this functioning?
And it, it always relates back to your relationship with your mother. And then the other piece of the work that I do- was around birth story, which is the circumstances around your birth from conception to three months. So also just looking at, like, what was happening with your mother while you were developing in the womb.
What was the circumstances around your conception, right? 'Cause all of that on an energetic level has an impact and creates an energetic lens that you look at the world through, and the way you expect the world to meet you, and the way you expect to be seen in the [00:49:00] world. , So it's, there, there's so much to it.
Um,
Jessica Cerato: , It's so fascinating. It's bringing me back to, oh my gosh, it has to be a few years ago now, when, , I don't know what prompted me to do this, but one year, it was around my birthday, I had a huge event where, I invited people to really feel into, , their own birth, and it was just so fascinating to me the range of emotion and experience, but also what I just flashed back to, 'cause I can hear some people even years later describing it, of like the specificity of what they were saying.
And our logical mind is like, "Dude, you were in the womb," or like, you were literally a newborn." But the energy, the emotions were so specific
Alyse Bacine: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Cerato: that it just kind of blew my mind in [00:50:00] that moment, and still does. Here's me, I'm like, "Did I do anything with that information?"
No, it just really was like, oh, let me... , that's really interesting to me. Like-
Alyse Bacine: Well, it's interesting because, none of us think that we consciously remember our birth , and we don't usually on a conscious level, but i- it happens more times than not that during, like the... I have breathwork sessions that are specific to all these different things, right? And I have one that's specific to the birth story, and it kinda takes you through going back to that time and being there, and people remember things all the time during the breathwork.
And that's why I always say it's better , to do it that way than like ask your mom, for example, 'cause sometimes your mom will tell you some stuff that like, it, like it might be how she remembers it or whatever, but at the same time, it might not be what your experience was, you know? And that's the most important thing is like what your experience was.
And, , this doesn't mean that everybody's gonna remember their birth the first time. Like,, I ha- [00:51:00] actually had a lot of, , like visions or feelings of me being in the womb when I was doing breathwork when I was pregnant, especially with my first, with my son. , Where I saw, I saw myself like coming out of my mother's womb , and taking on her trauma and also, you know, just the circumstances around my birth.
Just to... I'll tell you quickly because it's interesting, that my parents were both teachers in Philadelphia and, , in 1981 when my mom was pregnant with me was like the biggest teacher strike, like in history, like in Philadelphia. So my parents weren't making any money, and it was a really like tumultuous time and like I was literally being developed during this time where my parents had no money.
There was fear, scarcity. They couldn't buy anything for me. Like, you know, people like gave them stuff or whatever. When I was born in November, you know, my mom hadn't worked for a, a while because I, I don't remember the exact timing of it, but my dad had gotten like a [00:52:00] job like, like on like a truck, like packing butter on trucks or something.
Like there's alwa- there's always these things that I remember but You start to understand, , the pattern of fear that was going on in my mom's body was, like, exactly what was going on in my body on a low level that I was not conscious of, right? Until I became conscious of this fear that was happening, s- specifically around money, scarcity, security, survival.
So all of that is not something that I would've been, like, consciously aware of, but putting the pieces together, like knowing the circumstances, knowing my mother, and then also knowing the fear, like this low-level pattern of, , fear and anxiety that I was continuously experiencing without having much awa- context for it, right?
, I largely have been able to, to shift that, and it's like a, a journey. But it's stuff like that where you just start to be able to put the pieces together as you, like, go [00:53:00] down the rabbit hole of all this stuff. And I always joke that I'm like, on, like, those, like, police shows or, , CSI or whatever, you see, like, the detective, and he has, like, all the pictures all over the wall with, , the strings, like, going, like, , that's me when I'm talking to anybody.
, I'm always like, "Oh," I'm, like, connecting all the dots constantly 'cause it's like a, it's like a puzzle that, like, gradually you put all the pieces together and you understand why you're experiencing what you're experiencing, 'cause I always say there's a reason why you're feeling how you're feeling.
It's not a mystery. It's just, it might feel like a mystery 'cause you just don't have the context for it yet.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. I love that. And now I'm thinking even about, like, my role as a mom. So I have two kids. I know you have kids too. And just, like, anecdotally I'm laughing. I'm like, "Maybe this is why I secretly love..." Although it's really annoying in the moment when, , my kids really disagree with me about something, 'cause I'm like, "Yes."
Like, I'm glad you just don't take... Although I'm right. Just kidding. [00:54:00] You're not just, like, agree with what I have to say. But also, , is there anything, , a, a responsibility or anything, like, I as a mom can do kind of knowing this moving forward? Or is this just a natural part of kind of everyone's journey?
Alyse Bacine: Yes and yes. So, One of the most common questions that I get when people start working with me that are parents is, "Oh my God, I'm fucking up my kids. What do I do? How do I fix this?" You know? And what I'll say to that is really, first of all, don't worry about it because this is just the human experience, right?
Our kids have, like, soul contracts with us to be with us in this lifetime, and they're gonna experience uncomfortable stuff. , That's life. However, w- the only thing that we can do and the best thing that we can do is our own personal growth work [00:55:00] and our... And to continue to be dedicated to our own evolution because when we do that, our kids benefit, always.
And I saw this when I was a school counselor. There would always be, you know, a kid, say, who's, they are behaving badly. They don't do their work. They're not prepared. They're always, not paying attention, and you know, then you come to find out, , their mom is, hasn't been in the house 'cause she's on drugs or whatever.
Then the mom gets clean and comes back into their life and is present with them, and all of a sudden their behavior changes, you know? And no one said to them like, "You better behave," or, "You better do your work." It's just that now that they have this parent who's changed, who's evolved, who's now present, now their behavior has changed, and that happens across the board.
So lar- even if your kid's older, even if your kid's an adult, it happens. And you will notice, and this happens not only just with kids but with everyone in your life, when you do this work, everyone around you [00:56:00] changes. They start to show up differently, and also like with your kids, when you start to do this work, you have more capacity to be present with them.
You don't project your stuff onto them. You don't get triggered by them as much because th- your kids always trigger your unconscious wounding. So when you address that and it's not in your subconscious and you're trying not to look at it, , they will mirror it back to you. But if that's taken care of, then you can allow them to be themselves, and you can be present for them.
You can hold space for them without that, , attachment or agenda to like, "Oh my God, I have to prevent you from, like, my mistakes," or whatever we do with our kids, right? And that's not to say it's not gonna be challenging. , Being a parent is challenging no matter how you slice it. But when you do this work, your kids will benefit, and that's all you have to do.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah, and I love that because it just goes back to the very beginning of our conversation, which is just presence, like the impact of presence. [00:57:00] And we always have this joke in my house of one of my kids say, like totally roasting me, making fun of me of like what I'm wearing and what I'm doing, but the joke is like, "But she's here.
She's always here." I'm like, "Thank you for that." Like as, as a tween, almost a teenager, like I will never be perfect, but I will always be present. , And I think that's just like a fun realization to have. And also, again, like, you know, when our mind is always searching for things to do, it's really more about like who we are and who we are being that always, it always comes back to that as like the importance of that, of like who we are.
Alyse Bacine: Yeah. And being willing to sit with why is it hard for me to be present? Or why is it hard... , what's actually going on? And being, like, willing to drop into your body and, like, feel what's happening, because so much, that's really all you have to do. For my clients, I have this, , [00:58:00] six-minute breathwork called Feel Your Feelings.
, Like, whenever there's a trigger, whenever there's something coming up, whenever they're like, "Oh my God, why do I feel this way again? I can't do... , this," and I'm like, "Feelings breathwork." 'Cause it just, , once you drop in and you feel and you let the feeling move and process, then you come back to clarity, and you move through what comes up, and you're able to, , be present and execute.
But it's really just about being willing to feel what's there and not run away from it or avoid it
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. Oh gosh, my mind is still going a million miles a minute with so many more questions to ask you, and then I'm la- laughing. I looked at the time. I'm like, well, we've been gabbing for a while now. But I do wanna just, end on this, of like really honing in on you and your work and the Metamorphosis Method and everything you do.
, What is your energetic advantage there? Like, what is it that you, who you are or what you do, or [00:59:00] what is that uniqueness that you are like, yeah, , I do it differently and that's why? What is yours, do you think?
Alyse Bacine: I love this question. So I think it's two things. I think it's being able to see really quickly the depth of what the wounding is on the deepest level, like where it came from, what it is, how it's functioning for somebody, and usually I can see that within , 20 minutes? I don't know. It depend- depends on the person, but I can see that , very quickly, and I can teach other people how to do it, too.
, And then being able to walk somebody through that, the process and apply that information in a tangible way so your day-to-day life changes, and I think that's, , something that I've really mastered that I don't see often in the space of, like, how do we take this information and make it tangible so that you can apply it in the moment when something's [01:00:00] happening, when you feel triggered or upset or you don't know what's going on, but you know you can't move forward, or whatever is happening, for you to be able to change in the moment so that your day-to-day changes and your life changes, and you can create the result that you want.
And I think that's the thing that I am really good at with, you know, teaching that to my certification students but also my own clients, is like, "Okay, what is the specific outcome we want?" And, , we're gonna get you there, you know? I can't promise, , the, the detours we might have to take or whatever, but, , I can guarantee you I'll get you there as long as you do what I tell you.
Jessica Cerato: Yeah. I love that. Like, what an epic energetic advantage to have. Like
Alyse Bacine: Yeah, because , it's like I've been able to be like... 'Cause for so long, for the last 25 years, I've been like, ", what actually is it that creates transformation," right? And you know, I'm a Scorpio. I'm like, I'm obsessed, and I'm like, "I'm gonna make this shit into a predictable process. It's a science.
Like, I can put a [01:01:00] percentage on it." Like, and I'm not even a math person. That's, like, not my thing. But I have gotten this down to a science, and I can, like, predictably get you to where you wanna go, , with this process. So that, that's something that I feel like is an energetic advantage because it's, , really taking something that feels very elusive and very intangible and making it tangible and applicable that, and simple enough for you to develop your own practice in it in your day-to-day life.
Jessica Cerato: Spoken like a true Scorpio. Takes one to know one. Listen, people
Alyse Bacine: like such... I was at a... Really quick, I know we have to go, but I was at a, I did someone else's amazing teacher's breathwork class a few weeks ago. it's very different than how I am. Like, there's, , the, the gongs and the sound and the, you know, all this stuff.
And, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, "God, I'm such an asshole." 'Cause I'm, 'cause I'm always like, "Okay, what's the problem? What's..." Like, I'm always, like, zeroing right in. Like, I have no [01:02:00] patience for any, , fluff. I'm always like, "Okay, how's it showing up in your life? Where does it, this... Okay, now you're gonna feel the shame.
Do you feel the shame? Feel the shame in your body? Okay, now you're gonna breathe." 'Cause I'm like, "We're getting somewhere."
Jessica Cerato: Like, maybe that's why we're so connected, 'cause we are just, , the same in different modalities. Okay, so basically, the whole takeaway from this whole episode is, like, when a Scorpio tells you something, believe them. And if you wanna get shit done, contact Elise
Alyse Bacine: Well, and also, , I'm like, sometimes I'll say to people, 'cause I'll be like, "I can tell you exactly what's going on here. You're probably not gonna wanna look at it, but I promise you in, , five years you're gonna be like, 'Pfft, that bitch was right.'"
Jessica Cerato: Truth. Mic drop. Oh my gosh. , On that note, I want to offer you an opportunity. Anything else you would like to share here? That was pretty [01:03:00] epic, but listen, last call always goes to the guest. Is there anything that is feeling like on your heart, in your mind, that you really wanna leave people with today?
Alyse Bacine: I would just say, you know, I think a lot of people can feel like their problem or their issue or their thing is, , so unique or bad or shameful or whatever that, , no one's gonna understand or they're not gonna be able to change it, and I just wanna say, , that's not true. , Usually you'll find out that, , every- everybody's dealing with something, and I've worked with hundreds of people at this point.
No one has a normal family. No one has had a non-traumatic childhood. , There's always something, so don't feel like any of this is inaccessible to you. And like I always tell my clients, like, there's literally nothing you can tell me that will, , surprise me or scare me or freak me out, , 'cause I've heard it all.
And I think it's important to just know that, , as long as you have the desire and the willingness, you [01:04:00] can change even something that you've been working year, 20 years to change and you haven't been able to figure it out. You can. So that's, I think, the last thing I wanna say
Jessica Cerato: Beautiful. You can change. Yes. Yes, we can. Thank you so much for being here. , For everyone listening, if this resonated with you, if you wanna learn more about Elise, we'll put everything in the show notes, ways to contact her. And, you know, it just is so beautiful, I find, when someone can very clearly and confidently articulate their energetic advantage.
, So thank you for that. And I just feel even by you saying that, hopefully it inspires others to really be like, "Okay," , "What is mine? What is my unique advantage here?" And to own it in a way, , that you did. So thank you for that beautiful example. Thank you for being here. And to everyone else, we'll see you next time.
Bye.
Outro: Thanks for being here inside The Energetic Advantage. If today's episode open something for you, share it, tag it, [01:05:00] or send to the person who popped into your mind. And remember, energy first strategy second. Your advantage has always been in you. Now it's time to lead with it. See you next time.
